Yeah that's a good example. The reason I put Atlante as an example is because they don't have any fans, and the ones that they do have aren't very passionate. If you add a packed stadium, South American fans, and an element like altitude, it's almost impossible for MLS teams to win away from home. Things can change, but they haven't shown us much throughout their brief history.
Too bad they don't have a winning record when it actually matters, for titles. This is just a myth that MLS fans throw out to make themselves feel better for failing in that competition.
I've seen some pretty empty stadiums on Libertadores and Sudamericana telecasts. And they aren't ALL at altidude. But in principle I agree. The only hope would be to win at home and then bunker down and pray. Of course other than Columbus not many MLS clubs will have much of a home field advantage anyway.
I think its a good idea. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT!!! Let the MLS participate in the Interliga. Its bound to happen. Everyone has to start Somewhere.!!
Wrong. To people who follow the games, and the MLS, one could easily tell it was their b squad, even dc united, who were missing marcelo gallardo or a player that was earning 400k out of the 2.3million salary cap, and many players at the time being hurt, having to rely on cheap talent that isnt even up to par to USL. Not to mention where the MLS put their priority, it was a slap in the face to Concacaf, rememember the US and how they put priority on the Gold cup, and then sent a C squad to copa america? Its their same sentiments towards the last concacaf champ. league. Yea, with the small teams that make it to the copa libertadores. For the most part though, the big clubs fill up. I agree, that would be best, to have that last spot come through a mix of MLS vs Mexican squads...
Well that's fine that MLS teams maybe didn't use their A teams but where exactly do you get that the USL teams made it their #1 priority? The Islanders rested key players in more than 1 CCL match because they were focusing mainly on the league title.
Until the MLS starts to supposedly give priority to major tourney's how do you expect us to take you seriously? True, against Concacaf opponents, we've been horrible. Not to get entirely offtopic, but your sig, it's making fun of something that is probably fact. I'll admit i'm ignorant towards Maradona, the only goals of his i've seen are the handball against England and his classic dribbling goal from mid court, but all with the national team, so I don't know my Maradona facts. Did he have a great club career, because it's never really talked about? I'm genuinly asking. Hugo Sanchez had 5 La Liga scoring titles for the then greatest and still arguably the most important club in the world. He played in the La Liga first division for 12 years. Overall, that's pretty tough to beat. Ok, back on topic.
Hmmm... that i didnt know either! Regardless, i am very impressed with Islanders talent, they have great players, and really think they are the stand out of the USL, i think they very well could do good in the MLS right now if you plucked them from there and threw them in the competition. Hell they looked better than many MLS teams IMO... Also a buddy of mine had a chance to play for them, but broke his foot while with the PR nat. Team, its too bad too especially considering how good they are. But with that said, MLS in the past has won 2 titles in concacaf in their short existence as a league, i am sure in time they again will dominate the Concacaf World Cup of Clubs, with the raising of the salary cap and more DP style players coming in and plying their trade. It will take time, but MLS will rival powerhouse Mexico's top clubs when they can match them dollar for dollar.... they already pay more to their DPs than mexico does to their top stars. Think about that. Thats what im saying! MLS totally shot themselves in the foot impression wise on their league. They messed up, and now tried to make changes so their depth is more deep for tournaments like this, by taking away slots of developmental players and now being able to use the salaries on less players but more money on single players. Meaning No more 30k paid players, like a bunch of them, instead theres maybe a couple and the rest get paid decent salaries. I think the MLS saw how crappy the second stringers were for their squads as its USL rejects who will put up with the low salaries, and tried to make a change. Fact is USL will pay that average decent young player more, than MLS. I think they are trying to change that. Not an excuse, but instead the MLS realize how they messed up and are trying to fix it.
Both titles have been won when the entire tournament was held in the MLS clubs city. Ecuador and Bolivia would have more titles if la Libertadores were entirely held in Quito or La Paz. As far as more DP players and dominating. You can't grow the league if the attendance and tv ratings stay the same. They haven't improved at all, sure you get the new clubs attracting fans because its a new club, but most MLS clubs still lose money. One more thing, only Beckham and Cuauhtemoc make more than the top stars in Mexico. oh yeah the Interliga was just a way for Mexican clubs to recuperate the money they had to pay to play against Venezuelan clubs for a chance to play in the Libertadores. It has nothing to do with CONMEBOL. SUM just promotes it, and has no jurisdiction over who participates. I think the contract ends next year, and since Mexican clubs no longer have to play against Venezuelan clubs, the tournament is useless.
^^^That still doesnt take away much from MLS IMO, they were a fresh league, with all new players just getting used to each other, while mexico's league had been around for ALOT longer than the US's. lol And even DCU beating Vasco de Gama away in florida and losing in DC, they still beat the best team in South America(with the likes of Juninho and many other good brasilian players who jumped to europe) . Also i think its pretty good of a win considering before DC the only teams to ever win it were only mexican sides, and even then (most mexican sides) they would still lose to their south american opposition. First time out for a American team, and a win straight up. Thats not bad if you ask me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Interamericana But anyway, i know what your saying about Beck's and Cuah'. They are getting bank, Beckham probably more even than any player in south america, even Riquelme thats getting i think only 3million euro or maybe a little less. MLS if they want can outbid for one single player over Mexico, they were close to paying 10million for 3 years for Veron, or 3.3 million a year, which would have been only second to Beck's. And your wrong in saying that the MLS isnt growing, the fans in Seattle and Toronto showed us there are people who want to watch soccer, cheer, etc. The reason for the money loss that you say, is because MLS teams are still paying rent for old stadiums, They arent making any revenue or barely are, or even losing money because of this and the amount they have to pay to upkeep these stadiums. MLS is trying to have their own stadiums, little by little every team will and then the salary cap can be raised, because until they keep losing money i dont see them raising it, and getting deeper in a hole. But on the interliga, i would love to see for that third mexico spot MLS vs. FMF teams play, or something like that.
The difference is that we're talking about an entire league outbidding clubs. If Club America wanted a certain player and they had to bid against the MLS who would be putting a bunch of change together as a league, it would be pretty close, considering Club America spends millions on their payroll alone. That's not a fair comparison you're using. If the entire Bolivian league put all it's money together as a league and bid for one player, it would also most likely reach the millions, it wouldn't mean the league is rolling deep and clubs can just start bidding alone for a quality, and expensive player.
Wrong wrong wrong bro. And the bolviian league is dirt poor. LOL Their salary's sometimes dont even reach 1 million, or even big teams like bolivar are probably right there with USL salary figures, 1.5 million USD. Bolivar is also in a rebuilding process trying to minimize spending, and to build their own stadium in time, which will be smaller but seem more 'full' as a result of the low turn outs somtimes. But anways that off topic. MLS only pays 400k (but doesnt alter the salary cap, they are paying 2.x yearly with or without a DP included, up to the team) of DP salary. The rest from that point on comes out of the owners pockets. They know this, like AEG who owns becks, and worked out that crazy deal with him, to come to the US. The owners of Chicago fire pay Blanco's salary. And really compared to other american sports stars its pocket change for these owners, who are some of the richest people in the US. For example, DC United's part (Victor Mcfarlene(sp) )owner is a 5-6 billionaire, and their other owner Willl Chang owns the San Francisco Giants. They both have TONS of money, but as smart business men they want to see a profit before they go and spend tons, although they are willing to throw cash at a player that will make an impact. Gallardo for example who was their fall back who they paid 1.9-1.8 million because veron fell through (3 years 10million USD).
Bolivian example was probably bad, but it doesn't matter, it worked to get at the point I was getting at. Bolivia probably has the poorest league, but enough about that. What your doing now is talking about how rich the owners of the teams are, not the profit, and power that the team actually has. Chivas USA, wizards, rapids etc...are considered small clubs with small profits, if any profit really, but i'm sure the owners are millionares, billionares. In baseball for example, the brewers are a sh-it team with a sh-it salary, but the owners have a crap load of money, so what's your point? That because the owners are millionars they can go ahead and steal A-rod and other big guns, unlikely since the club isn't turning a huge profit relative to other franchises. When is this not the case? You can take the smallest first division teams in Mexico, Argentina, brazil and I can almost guarantee you their owners are millionares.
Fresh league, new clubs But you make it sound like the players had just started playing. Etcheverry, Moreno, Harkes, Pope, Agoos were no rookies. They were all experienced pros. And again both games were played in the states. When MLS teams get their stadiums and raise their cap. Then you can come and talk about the financial stability of the league. Considering Mexican clubs run the Interliga I doubt that would ever happen. If CONMEBOL wanted an MLS team in the Libertadores they would have made it happen already. But they probably saw their Sudamericana performances and thought twice.
^^Of course! Same could be said in most nations in south america, big teams have rich owners. My point is in the potential, in time they will be able to bring players to the US that mexico nor south america could ever bring, Euro Players, or players from other parts of the world beyond south america who want a chance to experience life in the USA and still get paid decently. Thats my point, in time mexico will be battling with USA for players. Heck, even some teams now can outbid mexican teams but isnt worth it to them. Look at Kraft, the owners of The Rev's and Patriots, they still dont have a DP cause they dont feel its worth it yet.
True, that was a real special team that i would have loved to see compete in the copa libertadores, many agree its the best team the MLS ever created.... i tend to agree. I agree. There were some waves coming from over there in wanting to get some of that Beckham money, but at this point i think like you say they will think twice. i really thing the best thing is to let MLS work their way in, like Mexico did with having to go head to head with Venezuelan teams. That would be the way to go. But now i dont see MLS focusing much on Copa Libertadores or wanting to, as they have the concacaf Champ. League and knowing how the MLS and US mentality is more about their internal importance than external, i doubt they'll go for Copa Libertadores participation....
So millionares from the u.s. will bring euros like Cristiano Ronaldo? Maybe in a situation where it's similiar to the becks deal, where they all get together and pay out huge sums of money, only to see the entire plan fall flat in their faces like the becks deal has. You seem to think we're living in the year 2087 when maybe soccer will be popular in the states. Until then realize that you guys have a minnow status with the rest of the continent in terms of competition, and power. Quit living in a future fantasy world of what will be and start earning the respect, the MLS isn't even close. You also seem to think that there isn't any serious money in the FMF, you're underestimating it's worth and power; t.v. contracts, friendlies with club and country, merchandise, all coming from two countries, Mexicans in Mexico and the Mexicans in the United states. 140 million of them.
I am not under-estimating Mexico, neither am i living in a fantasy world. The fact is, theres tons of money to be had here in this country. Look at Hockey, #4 sport but still has a crazy following. This is the spot Soccer is aiming for, to knock them out of the picture. Hockey games on average are right there with MLS as far as attendence goes. Same goes with TV audience, with teams like DC United beating them out alot of the times and sometimes the wizards too! What i am saying is not that far off, and i wasnt talking about bringing Euro' players in their primes, but more so the F. Ljunbergs(sp) who still have some left in the tank but is at 31. Now a days it seems even at that age you can go until your deep into your 30s. So MLS can get still good legendary players with some left to give, Veron for example in the beginning of 08', or other players in the future, will give MLS a shot. Look at T. Henry, he will def. come to the MLS in a year or 2. Even then he will still have alot to give. Fact is, MLS will never get their hands on top euro players in their primes, why? Cause MLS isnt as competitive as the best euro leagues, and isnt considered on their level. But it will pay well, and be a good destination not only based on location (who doesnt want to come to the US?) but also pay, where sports stars are treated with respect for the most part, and given privacy(at least soccer stars). So no kidnappings, good money, nice scenery, etc. This is my point. Dont assume things or take things out of context. [size]
Maradona played for Barcelona and Napoli, among a few others. If I'm not mistaken both won titles while he was there. I know for a fact that Napoli did because I remember that. Maradona probably had at least a few scoring titles as well. He was dominant for club and country.
so how are they going to determine qualifiers then? I think the Mexican Apertura champs and regular season winners should get automatic bids with two or three others facing off against MLS sides. That would be fun. The Mexican clubs would probably win, but it would be good theatre.
Problem is there are several teams that have SSS (soccer specific stadia) but now that the gloss has worn off they're back to drawing crap. Look at Dallas and Colorado and Columbus. Even Salt Lake, which JUST opened last fall, had many empty seats for its home opener (granted it was like zero degrees but it was Utah, these people are used to it). i agree. so let's make it happen!
Sadly, I think you're right. Which is a shame because ultimately the only thing that will get MLS cred in Latin America is if its clubs manage to fend for themselves in Copa Lib/Sudamericana.
You know what happens to those teams? Sooner or later they get relocated, or they get busy and find how to get people back in their stadiums. I am shocked at Dallas, i would think more fans would want to go and watch soccer over there. But their record right now isnt helping them...... Columbus i think is alright. Colorado is always a team in trouble... they cahnged uniforms, badges, etc. god knows how many times... It would be interesting.... i am sure it would be a team though that isnt qualified to go to the Concacaf Champ. league