MLS teams in Copa Libertadores and/or..

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by STR1, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    @ceezmad Everything is speculation at this time because they are still in talks but according to those rumors they are advancing quickly. We will find out next year if it really happens of Liga MX and MLS joining. And it goes way beyond just having a final in the US without US involved. The whole point of CONMEBOL is to add both Mexico and the US markets, sponsors and TV deals and everything else that may come with it. It would do CONMEBOL no good having a final in the US with no one in the US or Mexico watching other than the people in the stadium. That I am aware of, CL has no TV deals in the US or Mexico, at least from the main TV Networks. You add MLS and Liga MX and sponsors along with TV deals are going to come, like they did before with Liga MX.

    And what I meant by pissing SA fans off is exactly that. Having a final, that is supposedly rotating every year, and have it miles away on a country that is not even in your confederation and not even involved will piss people off. And maybe even soccer federations as they too will be losing a chance to host a final. I hope that clarifies but that link that I posted clearly says that one of the request for the CL 2020 is to be in the US.
     
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  2. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid

    Don't worry. If CONMEBOL main goal is to rival UCL in prizes as they have said, I am sure once the Canadian league gets up and running, in a couple of years CONMEBOL will target them too. It is also a big market with big money. It will be dumb not to do it.
     
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  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    What we really need at this point is to start working on teleporting something bigger than neutrinos.
     
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  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The article was pretty crappy IMO.

    Or perhaps is my Spanish that is going to shit.

    I did not get who is requesting that the game be played in Miami or LA. Well my understanding is that Conmebol wants the game in LA or Miami.

    But is Conmebol requesting that as the price for MLS/LMX to pay to be allowed in.

    Is Concacaf requesting this as a price for them to not make any noise?

    Is MLS (USSF) asking for the game there to allow MLS to pay in Conmebol?

    I mean the game can be played in LA or Miami (Miami makes so much more sense) with out MLS or LMX joining, they do not necessarily have to go hand and hand.


    But regardless of that, my original question and point is that if MLS/LMX join by 2020 or not, that means nothing to the South Amrican fan (IMO) a neutral game played in Miami will be ok with some (wealthy enough to travel there) and it will be hated by others, regardless of CL expanding the invited teams or not.



    Last thing, I did not know that they were going away from the Home-Away final and into a single game final like the champions league, I did learn that today.
     
  5. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They announced it a couple months ago, with the first one-off final set for next year in Santiago (ditto Copa Sudamericana, with Lima hosting that final). And judging by the reaction on Twitter, the fans absolutely hate it.
     
  6. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those Edmonton-Santiago flights will be great fun. 1,000 miles longer than Edmonton-Istanbul.
     
  7. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Not unless they put a Canadian team with Mexico and the farthest north South American clubs in the same group as is already speculated might happen with MLS teams. Another option they said was for CONMEBOL to pay for charter flights for clubs that have to do the long haul. If true, then Canada would be no different IF or when they are invited which I see no reason why a big market such as Canada would be left out. But again, it is all in the air now. We should know for sure next year how Liga MX and MLS would join IF they work everything out. I am sure they are talking about all these stuff and working every detail to make it happen.
     
  8. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    You are right, Miami makes more sense. And the CL final in the US is part of the negotiations. As to who is requesting it, I don't know but I would assume CONMEBOL.
     
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  9. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about one neutral site in CONMEBOL and one in Miami? Since the games would not be home and away, away goals wouldn't exist, and any tied aggregate would go extra time. A three game Final has the possibility of the clubs flying from a northern city in CONMEBOL to a southern city in CONMEBOL to Miami. Google Flights says going from Bogota to Buenos Aires takes at least 6:12 and Buenos Aires to Miami takes at least 9:10. To compare, a flight diagonally across the USA from Boston to San Diego takes at least 6:22.
     
  10. CeltTexan

    CeltTexan Member+

    Sep 21, 2000
    Houston, TX USA
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct.

    Us in Houston, EB, we would be just fine thank you.
    I will not speak for the rest of our league's hinchas.
     
  11. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Got this from the comment section. Can't read the article. For some reason it keeps on freezing everytime I try to open it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/9r26nc/another_big_update_on_mls_to_copa_libertadores/
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    With the expansion of the World Cup to 48 teams, and with 12 teams getting a direct ticket from the Americas (plus two going to the playoff), one of the important barriers to uniting CONMEBOL and CONCACAF is gone: the big North American teams don't have to fear not qualifying. Or at least is won't be much harder to qualify.
     
  13. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's the original (in Spanish) for anyone interested.

    Note the title: "La Copa Libertadores 2020 puede tener a los equipos mexicanos, a los de la MLS y también cambiar para siempre" Emphasis on "puede" - all hot air and speculation for now. And a couple details:

    1. If Concacaf really were asking a Libertadores berth for the Canadian Championship winner, then they might as well cancel the CCL. The Canadian runner-up would be another story, but Canada sending their best to the Libertadores (something Mexico have never been expressly allowed to do - and only got to on a couple occasions through fortuitous scheduling) and depriving the CCL of the usual best non-Mexican performer?

    2. If true, Costa Rica should lead a revolt to get Montagliani run out of office in the next presidential elections. What was always the fear among the smaller members of Concacaf? That a president from North America would look out for the big interests only. The rest of the region could probably afford a Gallic shrug to Liga MX and MLS sending some teams south, but shoehorning a Canadian side into the Libertadores would be the ultimate show of Northern myopia.

    3. Btw, the author might want to get with the times: Hard Rock Stadium hasn't been known as Sun Life for a couple years now.

    Again, Concacaf doesn't just exist at the whim of the North American teams. Now, you may rightly ask, "Why should the likes of Guatemala stop a merger from happening just so that they have a better chance of going 0-2 at the World Cup finals?" But that ship has sailed: until the day that Federations no longer have one vote each in the FIFA Congress, the smaller FAs can use their strength in numbers to protect their interests.

    That, leaving aside the bigger dealbreaker of the (slightly less corrupt, one hopes) current bureaucrats in Asunción making space for and sharing power with their Northern and Caribbean counterparts.
     
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  14. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Welp...all of the above is moot for now, with the president of Conmebol calling bulls--- on the rumored negotiations.
     
  15. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You stole my thunder, I was going to make many of the same points you made.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    If they want a money-grab, just have the winner of the MLS Supporters' Shield play the winner of the Sudamericana in Miami.

    As for MX teams back in South America, the problem has come from above, from FIFA, they were never happy with that and pressured CONCACAF not to send their best teams, like they have done with Copa America (next one won't have any CONCACAF teams, FIFA is ok with NTs from any other federation going to the Copa, but for some reason they frown on a C-CAF/C-BOL rapprochement).

    A conspiracy-oriented person would think they are fearful too much cooperation between the two could lead to the limelight shifting away from Europe, and the FIFA bigwigs make their heavy cash from UEFA.
     
  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Some Caribbean teams struggle to afford playing Concacaf's youth tournaments in the USA. The cost of hotels and food might be cheaper in CONMEBOL, but I don't think those Caribbean teams would want to fly to Buenos Aires regardless of whether it was for a club tournament, WCQ, or confederational tournament. For USA and Canada the travel would be longer. Do you want USMNT or CMNT players on European clubs to fly to USA or Canada, then CONMEBOL, and then back to Europe in 10 days or less? Players could have to repeat the process three consecutive months when national teams play in September, October, and November. No amount of money or negotiations can decrease travel time or make players healthier and less tired from travel.
     
  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Caribbean teams are historically, culturally, and even soccerwise closer to Venezuela and Colombia than they are to us or even Central America. They'd benefit from having more interest in them from those two countries.

    As for the travel, Asia got it worse because it's across time zones, the Americas are just long on the North-South axis. We could do like they do in Asia: North & South only face each other near the end.
     
  19. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wrong - FIFA have nothing to do with Concacaf sitting out the next Copa América. Rather, Concacaf and Conmebol failed to reach an agreement on 2019 with the Gold Cup scheduling overlap, and opted to go their separate ways (the speculation being that they were hoping for another massive collab in 2020 - now that said Copa América's on the books, we may be closer to a rapprochement than we think).
     
  20. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Asia uses geographic halves for its Champions League, but no confederation does it for national team tournaments or qualifiers.
     
  21. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    CONCACAF runs regional qualification tournaments for the Gold Cup (Copa Centroamericano and the Caribbean Cup)
     
  22. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They used to - now, Montagliani's One Concacaf campaign has killed both tournaments in favor of the CNL. There is still regional qualifying for youth championships and the Women's championship, though.
     
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  23. footman2033

    footman2033 Member

    Aug 2, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It would be a great idea, if MLS clubs could play in Copa Libertadores.
     
  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    They'll have to win a few CCLs first.
     
  25. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am going to say no to much of what you typed.
     

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