MLS Playoff Conference Finals

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by Dayton Ref, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    I'm sure the Portland coach will come out praising Geiger for not giving out any "needless" yellow cards and not ruining the final with a suspension.

    No matter how much players put it it on platter for the referees, it's like the referees are allergic to giving any decisions that unbalance the game during the playoffs. It's quite remarkable.
     
  2. nylaw5

    nylaw5 Member

    Jan 24, 2002
    West Coast
    If MLS and PRO are looking to change the way the playoffs are officiated, they have enough evidence after this year to make it happen. I don't think you can blame Geiger - 98.97% of the time he gives that second caution. There are clearly expectations to keep players in games..... but that's a tough sell to KC who should have been playing 10 v 11 for enough time to make a difference. It will take pressure from the teams and league to make this happen, not PRO. Wonder if they finally say enough is enough, we want it the same as the regular season.

    Also, with Marrufo our #1 now.....does the "whistle in the pocket" playoff approach stop? Is he going move towards FIFA/Geiger's style?
     
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  3. nylaw5

    nylaw5 Member

    Jan 24, 2002
    West Coast
    Also, two very similar VAR/AR calls that had unusual outcomes. Both were really well done by Fletcher and Nelson but tough outcomes.

    First, Nelson holds a flag he clearly knew was offside and puts it up after the ball in the net - totally correct for the protocol. Geiger gives for foul occurring before the - yet unknown - offside infraction. This is like Tier 5 (arbitrary number) reffing.....hard stuff, well done.

    Second Half is less successful but right - Fletcher holds the flag correctly for a close decision but, worst case scenario, attacker and GK collide. Fletcher raises the flag when appropriate but can't avoid the collision. Fortunately all ok. Last year that collision doesn't happen.

    Really shows the two ends of the continuum for VAR and holding the flag.
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, one might be able to argue that FIFA has gone toward Marrufo's style. Have the 2014 and 2018 World Cups been officiated more like Marrufo or more like, say, 2011 Geiger?

    As for the match itself, Geiger likely gives that 2CT in the regular season, of course. And I believe he was probably close to giving it here. His out/argument seemed to be that the attacker was unlikely to get the ball so it wasn't SPA. It's a plausible point if you are searching for it but one that you don't bother go looking for in a regular season match. In this situation--for better or worse--MLS referees do. So he did. And so as he whistles and convinces himself it wasn't truly SPA, Valentin gets to stay on the field. A little less pace on the ball or a little more force in the tackle and I think even Geiger would have felt his hands were tied.

    Nelson was fantastic last night, by the way. Those were not easy calls that he nailed.
     
  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don't think that makes it gutsy. The expectation is that ARs nail these--the flag delay is so that an erroneous flag can be reversed by VAR. If he doesn't flag it, then he both gets the egg on his face of being reversed and gets dinged on his assessment. So if an AR is certain that VAR will reverse, it isn't gutsy to flag, its the only rational thing (after the appropriate delay, of course). He gets kudos for nailing the call, but I think gutsy isn't the right descriptor in the world of VAR and delayed flags.
     
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  6. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
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  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s funny. That’s not the way this was supposed to be announced. I’m absolutely certain that a few people on the crew don’t know yet. Whether Kelly already knew is debatable (he likely expected it and maybe was told) but the formal assignment for the crew has not technically been made and communicated to the officials.
     
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  8. me116

    me116 Member

    Aug 25, 2017
    Generally, I would agree. Gutsy and certainly right, however, are not mutually exclusive. In the grand scheme of the game, (ignoring assessments and referee forums for a moment), he could have known he was right and that it would be a controversial call in the eyes of those who could impact him the most at the time -- the players and the spectators. None of us know exactly what went through his head when he made the decision, but we all see that it was an excellent, and difficult, decision.
     
  9. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We talk about this every year, but still worth noting who the referee of they year nominees were. I'm a bit surprised they nominated Saghafi instead of Unkel. I wonder why? I assume they nominate the top three in assessment scores, or something like that.
    Also interesting under the AR votes, Rockwell carried the media vote, while Fletcher won the players. That makes sense...all three nominees are very funny, charismatic, conversational with the players, so it makes sense that the players would know those three (Rockwell, Fletcher, Morgante), and really any could have won. It used to be a concern that the players wouldn't know the ARs well enough to cast decent votes, but I don't think that's an issue now. Stability in the ranks and the personalities of these three really does help the players know them.
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saghafi had one of the highest assessment scores for the year. If you eliminate Geiger and Marrufo due to their number of games, I’m fairly sure the referees with the three highest average scores were nominated this year. However, I’m also fairly sure that’s not usually the case.
     
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  11. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
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