News: MLS O&Os Out of 2016 Open Cup

Discussion in 'US Open Cup' started by kenntomasch, Nov 5, 2015.

  1. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    http://thecup.us/2015/11/04/mls-own...d-in-2016-us-open-cup-per-ussf-policy-change/

    That's fair, I guess, especially if those teams' parent clubs are trying to (more or less) game the system.

    This should reduce the pro entrants to, by my count:

    17 MLS clubs (MTL, TOR, VAN excluded)
    10 NASL clubs (OTT, EDM and PR excluded)
    18 USL clubs (BETH, MTL, LAG, NYRB, ORL, POR, RM, SEA, SPR, TOR, VAN excluded)

    I don't know how all the amateur slots will be allocated (though these 18 clubs have qualified). The Red Bulls' U23 team is on there, but the policy change refers to professional teams.
     
  2. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    It will be interesting to see if this is applied to Rio Grande Valley FC. The Houston Dynamo do not own the new team but will be providing all the players and coaches. It seems like it would raise the same concerns.
     
    kenntomasch repped this.
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    Policy says only "majority-owned." But it may be that Josh merely forgot to include them. A clarification from USSF would be welcome.
     
  4. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    As a T2 fan im disappointed, I was hoping for a PDL or NPSL team to play next year. I did miss the two open cup games in 2015 cos i wouldnt fly to michigan for the game (I did watch it on youtube) and away to S2 at 2pm on a Tuesday. I have less interest in the Timbers u23, But i can probably get tickets for Timbers first team cup game (I have the last 2 years)
     
  5. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    Cosmos pulled Cosmos B out of the tournament, even though they did not have to under this policy change.

    Maybe to shame NYRB into doing the same? ;)
     
  6. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Country:
    United States
    MLS article, containing the link to THECUP.US, and a link to the updated policy: http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/11/05/us-open-cup-adds-new-rule-ban-usl-clubs-owned-mls-teams


    last page of the policy update (yes, in boldface red underlined so you know it must be true):

    The following policy amendment was passed at the September 8, 2015 Board of Directors Meeting.
    Policy 102(4)-1 -- Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup
    Section 202. Team eligibility
    (d) Any Outdoor Professional League Team that is majority owned by a higher-level Outdoor Professional League Team shall be ineligible to participate in the Open Cup. The Open Cup Committee shall review and determine team eligibility annually pursuant to this provision and report its decisions to the National Board of Directors.

    So for the question on Rio Grande Valley; since "The Open Cup Committee shall review and determine team eligibility annually pursuant to this provision" may give the committee the leeway to eliminate them.
     
  7. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Country:
    United States
    #7 SJJ, Nov 8, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
    ... with

    PDL 15
    NPSL 13 or 12 (if NYCosmos B is replaced)
    Open 8

    So that could make the tournament:

    if 13 NPSL teams:

    roundnewinfocarry overmatches
    128of 36 amateur14
    226USL and 8 amateur1420
    310NASL2015
    417MLS1516
    81


    if 12 NPSL teams:

    roundnewinfocarry overmatches
    126of 35 amateur13
    227USL and 9 amateur1320
    310NASL2015
    417MLS1516
    80
     
  8. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    So last year had more teams and more games per round than next year, probably more travel for teams. Another reason why im against removing reserve sides. Most reserve sides wont progress 2 rounds to cause a problem for the draw.
    Sounders 2 were the only team to do so last year and were easily kept apart.
    Also MLS sides u-23 sides are still in the competition. only one is Red Bulls this coming year.
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    It's not about the draw or keeping them apart so much as MLS teams gaming the system with regards to quality young players they don't want to have Cup-tied to their reserve club. It's an integrity of the competition situation, brought on in part by a club running a bunch of Academy kids out there in a Cup tie by their reserve team instead of their actual reserve team.
     
  10. SJJ

    SJJ Member

    Sep 20, 1999
    Royal Oak, MI, USA
    Club:
    Michigan Bucks
    Country:
    United States
    With the new Rayo OKC team, the possible rounds become:

    with 13 NPSL teams:

    roundnewinfocarry overmatches
    132of 36 amateur16
    222USL (18), amateur (4)1619
    311NASL (11)1915
    417MLS (17)1516
    total82


    with 12 NPSL teams:

    roundnewinfocarry overmatches
    130of 35 amateur15
    223USL (18), amateur (5)1519
    311NASL (11)1915
    417MLS (17)1516
    total81
     
  11. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    USL (17), NASL (10) and MLS (17) should enter in the same round, giving amateur clubs 20 berths=64 clubs.

    Total: 84 Clubs
    Round 1: 40 Amateur Clubs
    R2: 64
    R3: 32
    R4: 16
    R5: 8
    R6: 4
    R7: 2 (FINAL)

    MLS teams will play only one more game. But this will give the US Open Cup much more fairness, atention and importance.
     
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  12. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    That would be the same number of clubs in the last seven rounds as the FA Cup has.
     
    kenntomasch repped this.
  13. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    Not in FA Cup. It's the right number.

    MLS shouldn't enter so late in competition, is not fair for others clubs.

    US Open Cup is a competition for those clubs to have the opportunity to play against first division clubs.

    They have all the work and then MLS clubs enters in the final round where they are 17 and all the others just 15??!!
     
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  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    I don't understand. I wasn't suggesting that the U.S. Open Cup have as many clubs as the FA Cup. I was just stating the format you proposed is the format the FA Cup has starting with the Second Round. Including qualifying rounds, the FA Cup has seven rounds before the Second Round. With the current format, an amateur club in the U.S. Open Cup just has to advance one round (or two for the four clubs that started in the Preliminary Round) to face a USL club but two rounds more than that to face an MLS club. With an open draw for the Round of 64 with 20 amateur clubs, an amateur club could face another amateur club, an MLS club, or a club at a level in between.
     
  15. Paulo PT

    Paulo PT Member

    Nov 24, 2015
    Club:
    SL Benfica
    It was a mistake.

    I want to say Not Only FA Cup, but all National Cups introduce D1 clubs sooner than in US.

    Is not a fair competition the current format of US Open Cup.
    MLS representing more than 50% in the final "entrance" round its insane...
     
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  16. Owen Thornhill

    Dec 22, 2012
    Club:
    Cork City
    I have a idea where the bottom 2 US teams in each conference have to enter a round early. Punishment for finishing bottom and should weed out a few.
     
  17. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Country:
    United States
    Thing is, MLS accounts for almost half of all the professional teams in the country, and probably also contains at least a quarter of all the teams in the entire country that can even afford to participate in the Open Cup. The format will naturally sort itself out as the lower divisions get stronger and gain more clubs.
     
  18. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    MLS clubs enter in the Round of 32. In the Coppa Italia the top eight Serie A clubs enter in the Round of 16.
     
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  19. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Country:
    United States
    http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/201...olicy-regarding-team-eligibility?sf23278431=1

    CHICAGO (March 28, 2016) - The U.S. Open Cup Committee has made an adjustment to the Open Cup Policy regarding team eligibility, forbidding any Outdoor Professional League Team whose player roster is managed by a higher-level Outdoor Professional League Team from participating in the tournament. This addition broadens the ineligibility provision announced January 7 beyond ownership control.

    For the 2016 tournament, this adjustment affects only Rio Grande Valley FC (USL), an independently-owned Division III expansion team whose roster is managed by the Houston Dynamo (MLS). The change was made at the request of the Dynamo.
     
  20. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Country:
    United States
    Many can afford to participate. They can't all afford to keep winning and have to travel.

    There are 52 professional teams in the country (17 MLS, 9 NASL, 26 USL), but nine of the USL ones aren't eligible because of the new edicts. MLS would have 26/52 or right at 50%. As it is, they have 17 of the 43 participating pro teams or just under 40%.
     

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