MLS needs to start caring about the USMNT again

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by adam tash, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I agree I wouldn’t be shocked if they said to Long or his agent that they value him at 15 million. The two biggest issues to sort out are 1) is the rumored 5 mil release clause real 2) MLS keeping 1/3 of the deal. If Red Bull got to keep all 4 mill I’d wager this deal would be done, even with it being mid season.
     
  2. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    so what is really going on then?

    the club is trying to get rid of him? or the agent really wants him to stay? what statement shouldn't be taken at face value?
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    None of it should be taken at face value.

    The club could really not want to sell, or could be positioning to get a higher price.
    The club could really want $15M, or could just be anchoring the negotiations.
    The agent could literally be making up the $15M to try to get public opinion on Long's side.

    It's all negotiations. And people aren't honest to the press in negotiations.

    Let's take an example taking the USMNT out of it. When Almiron was on the block, one of the first offers in was around $15M.

    Of course, a bunch of people said Atlanta should take it.

    Atlanta said they wouldn't look at an offer that "didn't start with a 3" meaning it had to be $30M at least. Everyone said they were crazy.

    In the end, Atlanta got like $27M. Atlanta accepted something that didn't start with a 3 but sure as hell got a lot more money.

    Each side tries to anchor. Each tries to create urgency in public opinion or in the form of other suitors, etc. Each says things they don't mean at all.

    You just have to let it play out.
     
  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    ok my fault totally

    shouldn't listen to the press its just fake news...then you go into a story that would've come from....the press...as an example of how you think it works. Even though ur facts aren't true about what happened.

    nyrb are holding long up with a crazy asking price, they dealt adams for below market price because of where he was going and its insane. Adams moved for three million dollars and they want 15 for aaron long...you tell me what his agent has wrong.

    nobody told atlanta to take just 15 for almiron either that would've been crazy.
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    NYRB has the player under contract and can ask whatever price they want.

    15 million, by the way, is a nothing price for an English Premier League club.

    They're paying 80 million for defenders over there.

    The club in discussion here, West Ham, just paid 40 million pounds for Sebastian Haller and 28 million pounds for Pablo Fornals. Who? Pablo Fornals.

    We don't need to freak out about this. Negotiations will happen between the clubs. If it gets worked out, great. If it doesn't get worked out. Great. NYRB is within its rights not to sell the player. Aaron Long JUST signed a new contract with them. Did somebody put a gun to his head when he did that?

    It IS NOT THE JOB of MLS clubs to sell players to Europe for the betterment of the USMNT. Not even remotely. Selling Aaron Long puts a colossal dent in NYRB's ability to win MLS Cup this season. That's their primary mission. A Euro club that wants Long is going to have to pay up.
     
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  6. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m guessing the people who are in favor of MLS teams selling their players at a discount in order to help the USMNT aren’t fans of any MLS teams.
     
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  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Are there a lot of examples where B2/Championship teams hold onto signed players that are wanted by major league clubs? Or is there an expectation between the sides that something will be worked out?

    I think that the transfer usually happens but maybe I’m just not aware that it fails frequently.
     
  8. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's laughably wrong.

    I wish the Earthquakes could develop talented players coveted by European teams. Maybe then we'd have the transfer budget to go out and buy a great DP instead of relying on loans and Eredivisie/Allsvenskan players as poor substitutes for Vela/Zlatan/Piatti etc.
     
  9. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I thought Garber said that MLS was going to become a selling league? You dont do that by overvaluing your players and trying to get the absolute maximum amount for every player. You do it by selling players for reasonable amounts and develop anyon more to step into their spots. As you develop a track record of players succeeding more interest arises and prices are pushed up by the increased demand.

    The league continues to fail itself (the national team is secondary). The league is 20 years old and doesnt have a large track record of selling players and not sure the success rate is that great either. They do have a reputation of being difficult to deal with.

    The ideal trade is the one where both sides are happy with terms. It cant happen since MLS values its players at 3+ times where the market is. I don't see the basis for claiming Long is worth more than $5M. I think him going for something in that range and him out performing expectations would be the best thing for NYRB and the league.

    If he is really so valuable to NYRBs, it is their fault for not having a replacement. It also isnt consistent with the how they value hik in terms of his salary. If Long doesnt get sold, it is just another example of players having their career options limited by the league. Long didnt really have another option than signing with MLS, but lots of kids out there do. If I am a young player, i am watching this and what happens to guys like Pomykal. The league might get an extra million here or there (which I am often told doesnt matter to the billionaire owners), but they lose out on kids leaving for nothing or deals not getting done.
     
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  10. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I wouldn't go that far. You can be a fan of a team and still be country over club.

    It's just a little silly to expect MLS to be country over club.
     
  11. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The odd thing is valuing Long at about 5X the amount of Tyler Adams.
     
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  12. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Adams is also still a teenager, was moved internally, and RBNY is also in line to collect a heavy percentage of any transfer fee should RB Leipzig sell him to another club.
    Long is valued very highly to RBNY currently. They just signed him to anew long term deal that more than quadrupled his salary. Now fast forward 6 months later, and they are somehow expected to just sell a player they are counting on in the near and long term? That doesn't make any sense. Also, they very well may have a replacement for him lined up internally, but that player may need more seasoning in USL before they bring that player up.

    Also Long was cut from several MLS teams, and then landed in USL. RBNY took a chance on him and signed him to their USL team. They invested in his development, promoted him to the MLS team, and now since rewarded him with a long term deal that includes a substantial pay raise.

    Long's agent spouting off to the press is typical of agents trying to negotiate in public. It's no secret that Soccer agents make a good portion of their money off of transfer fees. His agent is trying to cash in.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That salary is not even close to being in line with their valuation. Are they underpaying, overvaluing him or both?
    This sounds like they were doing charity work when in fact this is what team supposed to do. They took a chance on him by signing him to a USL contract?

    I personally think the guy is over rated by MLS fans. He has a lot of things going for him, but still quite a few weaknesses. I am seeing in another thread claims that he is more accomplished than Cameron was in an weird argument to justify the valuation.. I would completely disagree. Cameron was a much more well rounded player with much more experience.
     
  14. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is just a bizarre statement. What makes players valuable is precisely that you don't have a ready replacement of the same quality. Players all over the world are denied transfer for a cycle or 2 because there is no immediate replacement. This is not an MLS or Red Bull NY thing. Again, just a bizarre statement. As for his salary, he makes what … 8 or 900,000 bucks a year? Money that they just gave him. That is not consistent with how they value Long in terms of salary? Where did this belief start that your current salary is determinative of how much you can be sold for? It makes no sense.

    As for part that I did not quote of your statement … MLS becoming more of a selling league is not synonymous with every team in the league acting like a desperate lover and accepting any old treatment from these European clubs. What's even crazier is that the owner of Red Bulls is a European entity … and they are the ones refusing to sell. Yet again MLS gets the blame for this European entity, who knows how transfers work, deciding that Long has a lot of value. I don't get it.
     
  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    If he was so valuable that he was irreplaceable, they should be paying him more. He isnt some transcendent player that their attack depends on, but a decent CB. It isnt that hard to find one of those for well less than $4M. There is definitely a correlation between salaries and value around the world.

    This desperate lover crap is pure hyperbole. $4M is more than a reasonable enough opening offer to think a deal could get done. Countering at $6M to $8M is likely to find a fair middle ground. $15M is just nonsense and likely to end negotiations. There are many better center backs around the world worth that amount. MLS is involved in all deals and can get involved in whatever they want. You know who could use a supposed $15M CB? RBS! Why not just sell him to them for $4M and put him in the shop window for the rest of Europe?

    We are talking a 26 yo MLS CB with less than 100 games who struggled in concacaf CL and got abused by Venezuela. He looked decent against a depleted Mexican side but still didnt look comfortable on the ball. Sure he has potential, but he done nothing against any real competition to suggest their valuation.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Adams was sold from the left arm of an organization to the right arm, so to speak. Using his valuation as some sort of benchmark isn't valid at all.
     
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  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Then why would you ever want him sold to the premier league? As you describe him, he'd be a huge failure.

    You're still way overreacting to negotiation posturing.
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I personally dont care what happens to him. I am a USMNT fan and think we have plenty of other options. I'd love it if he got into a higher level of competition and grew as a player, but I wouldnt bet on it.

    I think a move to the EPL would be a failure for him. The problem is that is the only league that will possibly buy an MLS player when they demand top dollar. In the end, I don't think it is good for all three parties. He has potential, but that seems like to big of a jump and expectations would be very high from day one.
     
  19. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    //+
    Not at all hyperbole. Seriously, look at what you just wrote. You and others have been complaining about MLS being too involved in stopping the deal. When I point out the deal is actually being nixed by the European company that owns RBNY, you immediately switch to complaining that MLS is not doing enough to override the will of the club. Good grief, which one is it?! This is definitely jilted lover territory, because facts have ceased to matter. All that matters now is that Long is out of MLS, no matter what argument needs to be made to do so. If you start with the final decision and work your way backwards from there, you are always going to have a problem with logically supporting your position. It is hilarious to me to see the same people who were complaining that MLS was too involved and needed to stay out of the way of teams so that they could complete transfers, NOW complaining that MLS needs to do more to FORCE its teams to transfer players for less than those teams think it is worth. Talk about coming full circle. Honestly, this is what negotiations are about. You go low, I go high, and we haggle. If you go low, and I go barely higher than your low, I would be a terrible negotiator. But then again, none of that logic matters to you because you don't care about price at all … you just care about players getting out of MLS. Thankfully for fans of the league, the teams care about a bit more than that.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Well, that's callous.

    Okay.

    So shouldn't you be rooting for Long not to be sold to these top leagues? Won't his inevitable failure make all our other promising players stuck in the hellhole that is MLS look worse?
     
  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You make a fair point about league vs team. I dont follow it closely anymore to exactly what happens or how transparent it is. If the league has stepped back, then Garber shouldnt be talking about the league in terms of buying and selling. I dont think $4M is an unreasonable valuation for a player of his age and with such little experience.

    As for all I care about in this discussion, I dont think you have it right. I think the league has done a poor job selling players for some time. I think they have a bad reputation as a league/teams others want to deal with. The league doesnt have a ong or good track record of sending players prepared for top leagues. The best way to build a reputation is to sell more and more players. That is what their development academies are supposed to support. I'd think every NYRB academy player is watching this story and the result will impact their view of signing a contract. I wish the fans of the league would get that.
     
  22. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    its entirely valid because it proves they dont care about the valuation.

    there are reports that they were offered more by other clubs but turned them down to sell him for less...to themselves.

    it goes back to the agents point of one of the other two rb were interested the move would be made for a fraction of his value.
     
  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I cant follow you and the what appropriate decision tree to use. i think if the guy wants to reach his potential he should move.

    my fear is he stays and Berhalters bias causes him to select him over better players playing abroad.

    i guess i hope he goes to a Bund, Belgian club, Championship, etc and kills it. if he doesnt, then he will be ignored by Berhalter???
     
  24. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 6, 2006
    there is nothing to follow he is just throwing a temper tantrum on the whole thing. basically he is trying to fit in crazy thoughts and conspiracy theories all into one 'idea' so it comes across as a mess.
     
  25. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What? C'mon man. They absolutely care about valuation. They care enough to know that his quality, given minutes in Germany, would skyrocket his valuation. So they could have made "x" amount of money selling him straight from MLS to some team in Europe, OR they could make "5-10(x)" in 18-24 months after he showed the better teams his worth by playing for Leipzig (because there is still not full faith and confidence in purely MLS resumés). You have missed the mark on this one.
     
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