MLS needs to start caring about the USMNT again

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by adam tash, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    MLS has forsaken the USMNT and it will only get worse from here unless things change....


    Not sure exactly what needs to be done (I have ideas).....but something needs to change...

    How can teams full of players that can barely latch on in MLS/USL players: Jamaica, Trinidad, Venezuela, etc beat the USMNT full of MLS "stars"?????


    Something has gone wrong.....

    MLS doesn't care about helping the USMNT - it used to! - and it needs to again.....

    What can be done????????
     
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  2. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Crack is whack.
     
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  4. STR1

    STR1 Member

    May 29, 2010
    McAllen, TX
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mediocre domestic league goes hand in hand with a mediocre National team. You have a strong league, you are certain to have a strong National team. Not all national team players come from the domestic leagues but in most countries domestic players are the back bone of their national team.
     
  5. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    #5 Suyuntuy, Jun 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
    MLS is not that bad. Frankly, if the league were not mandated to limit the foreign players to a total of 192, and the clubs could field a roster comprised entirely of foreigners, the league would be significantly better for the same money.

    Of course that's the opposite of the intention of this thread.

    So how can MLS help the NT when the more Yanks it has, the lower the quality? Were we to decrease the number of allowed foreigners from an average of 8, and get more US-eligible players on the field, the quality of the league is likely to drop further, proving no use for the NT in spite of those extra US players.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Part of the issue right now is rapid, rapid, rapid expansion in the league. The player pool of domestic talent of an MLS-caliber (which is higher than folks give it credit for) can't keep up. So yes in 2019 an average Colombian can be better than a domestic player available if a team is trying to win. Every time the pool recalibrates, two more teams are added. We have an expansion draft, and it goes and goes.

    Of course the minutes going to young Americans in MLS is skyrocketing in MLS this season. As an example more than 30% of the FCD and RSL minutes have gone to homegrown players.

    At the youth levels the USSF seems to have its act together. Kids are being brought thru in waves. That's going to take time, but its happening. Pulisic, McKennie, Sargent, Adams, etc. are just the start. And there's a steady stream of kids moving from MLS to European clubs (like Soto, Ledesma, Richards, Mendez, Gloster, etc. from the recent U20 team). These are high caliber prospects, and the train doesn't seem like its slowing down. Matthew Hoppe just went to Schalke.

    As unpopular of an opinion as it might be, I don't think the problem with the USMNT is MLS. MLS academies is where the solutions are coming from. Anybody watch the US U20s versus France?

    So if the question is: what can be done by MLS to improve the USMNT...……….they're doing it. Increased investment in academies, reserve teams, and first team minutes to young players. Every year that goes by the pathway is getting better, and youngsters are being produced. I realize that's a long term play, but that's the answer.

    The talent in the USMNT player pool is more than good enough to beat the likes of Jamaica and Venezuela anyway. So what is going on? Botched player selection, tactics, and coaching. So that's on Berhalter, not the USSF or SUM or MLS or whatever. Now I'm willing to be a little more patient. I don't really care about what happens in friendlies. That's when a new USMNT coach can experiment. The Gold Cup will tell us a lot. For me, anything less than a finals appearance is a disaster. And anything less than a title is disappointing. Its the Gold Cup.
     
  7. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    If one team of MLS players can beat another team of MLS players, doesn't it suggest the problem is not with MLS?

    The easy answer is that Berhalter is a bad coach, which is not what I want to argue here (there's enough of that in the USMNT forum). But if we want to think about the average quality of the American player in MLS then:

    It's either an issue of the inflow (the colleges or the academies) and the outflows (players moving to Europe). Maybe Jamaica, et.al. are producing better youth players, or maybe it's easier for American players to jump to Europe. I'm not sure I would argue for either of those cases but those are the stories you need. Or maybe just some bad luck (Lletget injured, etc).

    I think MLS very much cares about the success of the USMNT to the extent that a better USMNT will popularize soccer and help MLS grow.
     
  8. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Absolutely agree.

    People are miffed right now about results and so they're screaming for "change" but the change has already been baked into the cake. We just need to head off all of the pitchforks long enough for the academies and u-20/u-17 talent to come up.
     
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  9. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Jamaica wins one friendly 1-0 and people exaggerate.

    Jamaica is capable of beating the USMNT every now and then if they don't come to play. This shouldn't be news to anybody. It doesn't, however, mean that Jamaica does anything better than we do.
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    one friendly? jamaica beat the US in the gold cup recently....
     
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  11. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    if this was true then teams like NYCFC and MTL....who play almost no americans........would be killing it every year and winning MLS cups but they aren't

    In fact the teams that have more americans are generally higher up and win more....TFC and ATL both start 5+ americans and won the last 2 titles.....

    playing more americans is not lowering quality...but that is a stereotype that some MLS teams buy into....
     
  12. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Recently, as in 4 years ago?

    Yeah, Jamaica is a competent side that we can lose to every now and then.

    I think they've beaten the USMNT like 4 times, ever.
     
  13. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    its not MLS players vs MLS players.....many of jamaica's roster was players who barely play in MLS or play in lower leagues than MLS. BIG difference.

    also....its the jamaica loss in the gold cup, its the TNT game that eliminated the USMNT from the world cup

    teams with MARGINAL MLS players or players that cannot even get into MLS...are beating american teams with MLS "stars"

    the sheer # of options in the american player pool DWARFS other concacaf countries...especially when you just focus on MLS...which GGG is doing....

    It doesnt make sense that a team of MLS "standouts" could lose to a team of players who can barely get into that league....UNLESS the politics and rules of that league are the real barrier to entry.....OR the coach of the USMNT is a frickin moron OR both.
     
  14. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    USMNT has suffered historically bad results to concacaf minnows up to and incuding the last 5 years. look it up.
     
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  15. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    the talent is NOT THE ISSUE.

    USA is the ONLY team IN THE WORLD to make QF of last 3 U-20 TOURNEYS!!!!!!!!!

    think about that.

    A good analogy is MUSICAL CHAIRS.

    What would happen if 20 people are playing musical chairs with 10 chairs?

    Are all the people who don't get to sit down "bad players"????

    NO!

    there are way more young players that could potentially be good enough for MSL than there are "young player slots" on MLS teams....if those players don't get a chance early enough they wither and never develop.



    Right now....as MLS rosters are constructed....Americans are the "hustle players" the "GK and defenders" the skill players are being outsourced.

    American players in MLS are used for attitude, hustle, etc...

    The SLOTS...the "chairs" for good Americans ARE TAKEN.

    if there were 400 Americans good enough for MLS or 100...it wouldn't change how many americans are playing in MLS....the # of Americans in MLS is pre-determined.....and, weirdly, MLS discriminates against Americans more than it does foreigners.

    MLS clubs spend on players from other leagues that often suck. Horta? Pity? Barco? etc etc these dudes are making millions but not producing....its not that they are bad or lack talent...but it is how MLS uses talent.

    the salary structure of MLS forces the behavior of teams against american players even though it seems like it is benefitting americans to have a limit of 8 INTL slots....in reality there is often a culture that makes it next to impossible for americans to break through in MLS now.

    Look at the last round of US OPEN CUP....players like Alvarez, Keaton Parks, Vasquez etc who GET NO PLAYING TIME IN MLS killed it!

    Talent is not the issue. opportunity is.

    limiting international slots to 8 isn't enough.....

    when a team is forced to field 2-3 americans...they will look for the jeff larentowicz's of the wold....the journeymen role players...the "glue guys" that every team needs....and the USMNT will then be filled with "role players" who cannot improvise their way out of a wet paper bag. and that is what we are seeing.
     
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  16. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    I the last 5 years, the USMNT have lost in competitive matches to three so-called minnows.

    2015 Gold Cup Semifinal (Jamaica)
    2016 World Cup Qualifying (Guatemala)
    2017 World Cup Qualifying (Trinidad & Tobago)

    And losing road qualifiers in CONCACAF isn't always an automatic disgrace.
     
  17. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    So this means that we seem to have a lot of talent between the ages of 19-23.

    This doesn't guarantee success on the senior side in 2019.
     
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  18. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    none of those teams even made the world cup and the reps from concacaf other than mexico all got embarrassed there anyway....your bar for the team is lower than mine....
     
  19. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    I'm far more reasonable than you are.

    There are men's teams that don't qualify for the World Cup that are capable of beating many teams that did. Especially at home. Especially in qualifying matches.

    To ignore that isn't a sign of having a high bar. It's a sign of being ignorant and unreasonable.
     
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  20. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    23 is old in soccer.....

    MLS is not helping the USMNT. PERIOD.

    are you happy with the players in MLS that are on the USMNT ?

    are you confident that lovitz, sweat, arriola, roldan, long, trapp, mccarty, zardes are going to be assets?

    its totally random which americans are successful in MLS, imo....

    its about luck and opportunity.

    that's why the americans in MLS in the USMNT are most of its worst players.
     
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  21. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    there are different ways a domestic league can cultivate a player pool.

    MLS' approach is horrible for the USMNT...in my opinion.

    MLS doesn't know how to do any better...the USMNT is not a priority for MLS and in my opinion it should be...for many reasons...first of all...it would help their bottmline to have a strong USMNT.

    But they don't know how to do any better. they cannot even beat mexico ONE TIME in CCL.
     
  22. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    MLS teams have beaten Mexican teams many times in Champions League.
     
  23. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    the point isn't that guatemla with a team full of players that arent ggod enough for MLS beat the USMNT.

    it is simple.

    MLS is not helping the USMNT....nothing about MLS' strategy takes USMNT success into account. and it should.

    Germany, italy, france, spain portugal etc...they ALL think about their national teams when they setup their national leagues.

    Are you of the opinion that MLS is doing the best possible job it could to heop the USMNT? do you honestly think that if MLS made the USMNT its priority or even a priority at all...that nothing in MLS would change from how it si run now???
     
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  24. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    they have ZERO CCL titles.
     
  25. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    By mandating development academies and expanding the league, yes, MLS is doing the best it can to assist the UMSNT.

    I don't understand what more you want MLS to do.
     
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