MLS in CCL (tourney resumes)

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by tigersoccer2005, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Look at the bright side. We're guaranteed 5 MLS teams playing next winter/spring, including the Rapids. :D
     
    scheck repped this.
  2. scheck

    scheck Member

    Mar 13, 2007
    Denver
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say MLS wasn't putting resources into academies, although I can see how I might have framed my opinion poorly. I am happy with the job they're doing. Ask me again in 5 years, though.
     
  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I saw a tweet the other day (can't find it now) that laid out the number of homegrown signings year-by-year. Something like 50% of them have come in either 2017 or 2016. Five years from now is actually a really good time to start judging the success of academy programs. Anyone who comes good before then (Miazga, Acosta, etc.) is a bonus IMO.
     
    scheck repped this.
  4. Unak78

    Unak78 BigSoccer Supporter

    Dec 17, 2007
    PSG & Enyimba FC
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    I'd expect it. In fact it still happens. I just ignore it if it goes beyond the pale. Up to a point there is still a relative point of view where it could be true from a certain perspective. When it passes that point I tune out. No point in arguing with a fan when their fanbrain is overriding their objectivity.

    With all said, with CONCACAF essentially scrapping the Champions League experiment without changing the name back to Champions Cup despite the format returning, they may be wrongfully believing that the old age of competitiveness will return as well. As I recall, even Costa Rican clubs contended for titles back then. However, it discounts how much more seriously Mexican clubs began to take the tournament for the simple fact of the Club World Cup berths being on the line. Granted, with the relative uncompetitiveness of the tournament and subsequent lack of interest and monetary return, i think that it is more likely that the return of the old format is owning to it's relative cheapness balancing the current lack of financial solvency of the tournament. Until the US and/or Costa Rica catch up to Mexico, the tournament will never be financially lucrative enough for the confederation to justify the cost of holding a group stage. This hopefully, puts more of an emphasis for MLS and Saprissa, Alajuelense and even Guatamalan, Honduran etc clubs to step up their investment in rosters in order to increase competitiveness and make this tournament more financially significant so that we may one day see a return of the group stage.

    In recent years, MLS has begun to poach more players form Costa Rica's top clubs which has hurt their performances. Costa Rica will have to begin to try to keep more of their players or they risk falling in significance in CONCACAF much like the Dutch have in Europe.
     
    JJV1994 repped this.
  5. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unfortunately, the price of fielding a team that can regularly compete with LMX teams is beyond what can be afforded by the leagues in countries which are both poorer and significantly smaller than Mexico. Those teams are falling further behind. The top three teams from Costa Rica are the only ones who can be expected to compete, but they're hurting right now.

    MLS is the only league in the federation that really has a chance to catch up, but it's not improving that much faster than LMX.
     
  6. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no idea where that data came from, but by my reckoning only about 21% of all HGP signings have happened in 2016 or 2017. I do think that clubs are becoming a little more judicious in who they choose to sign and the median quality of an HGP signing is much higher now than what it was in the early days of the academy program.
     
  7. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member+

    MLS
    Nov 5, 2004
    Denver or NOLA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These days, many do.
     
  8. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1184 tigersoccer2005, Apr 9, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
    And unfortunately there is a very good chance that all 5 will be eliminated..... :(:cry:
     
  10. porkrind

    porkrind Member+

    Quakes
    United States
    Sep 27, 2001
    Bostonia
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Oh no, we suck again!
     
  11. bemore_

    bemore_ Member

    Feb 5, 2014
    Club:
    CDSC Cruz Azul
    Do you guys really think is fair MLS has 5 teams in CCL?... doesnt matter if they are from Canada, they are still representing MLS. LMX only has 4 even though they keep winning and Costa Rica only 2?

    Honest question here.
     
  12. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair? Maybe not. But Costa Rica only has three competitive teams,* so giving them all spots nearly every year is pretty generous in itself. MLS and LMX are just deeper.

    *Since changing to the current half-hearted seasons in 2011, only once has one of the other teams won, and only three times finished in the top three. The last time was a second place finish in early 2013.
     
    Stupid_American repped this.
  13. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Fair? Probably not if you look at it as "just MLS."

    The canadian teams can only go for that 1 spot won with the Voyager's cup (Canadian Championship), no matter what they do in MLS (ie win Supporters Shield or MLS Cup). As of right now, there are 5 Canadian pro teams able to vie for the one spot. 3 are MLS teams, 1 is in the NASL, and 1 is a USL team.

    It may be 5-10 years before the Canadian league gets set up and there are more than 5 Canadian teams competing for that one spot.

    If Liga MX had a team in the United States, they could also get 5 teams in if that team was to win the US Open Cup.

    It's more a consequence of CCL being determined by countries which have teams rather than leagues.
     
  14. Daniel from Montréal

    Aug 4, 2000
    Montréal
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Looking like 1-2 years for the CanPL. You can probably expect an additional spot in the early round once it gets off the ground.
     
    Gamecock14 repped this.
  15. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #1190 Nico Limmat, Apr 13, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2017
    Pachuca are now scoreless in four consecutive Liga MX matches and have slipped to 8th in the table. Since March 4 the only games they have scored in were the CCL matches against Dallas:

    Dallas - Pachuca 2:1
    Queretaro - Pachuca 3:0
    Pachuca - Puebla 0:0
    Pachuca - Dallas 3:1
    Santos - Pachuca 1:0
    Pachuca - Morelia 0:0

    Certainly does look a bit like a missed opportunity for Dallas.
     
  16. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    It is kind of comical to see all the hand wringing in the face of obvious improvement.
    Compare Nico's chart to US national team games vs Mexico national team.. US beat Mexico in their first game in 34, then went 0-23-3 over the next 26 games through beginning of November in 80, then won 2-1 later that same month. Since winning the second game US has been 17-14-10 since. MLS is very close to 1980.

    Also notice Costa Rican teams show up on the list a couple of times. How many lucid people think MLS is behind that league?
     
  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Make that scoreless in five consecutive Liga MX matches:

    Dallas - Pachuca 2:1
    Queretaro - Pachuca 3:0
    Pachuca - Puebla 0:0
    Pachuca - Dallas 3:1
    Santos - Pachuca 1:0
    Pachuca - Morelia 0:0
    Pachuca - Chivas 0:0

    Up next is the first leg of the CCL final against Tigres on Tuesday. Better start scoring now.
     
  18. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    Friendlies aren't competitive matches. Redo the record without friendlies.
     
  19. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rivalries are Rivalries .... while the results might not implicate qualifying, they are most certainly competitive. I was at the April 2015 friendly in SA and if you think it wasn't competitive or that the fans didn't care ... you're out of your damned mind.
     
  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    LMX Clubs
    Mexico
    May 4, 2009
    Chitown
    They're not official matches, that's what I meant by competitive. You don't mix friendlies with official matches.

    In the past 8 years, Mexico has a winning record h2h against the usnt.
     
  21. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Results are results ... Friendlies are counted in the actual FIFA rankings.
     
  22. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    With Mexico's last two wins, they evened up the non-friendly competition to 7-1-7 since 2000. So not only has Mexico not been better domestically, the bigger problem is that is that their academy advantage has probably shrunk to very little and will soon become a growing competitive disadvantage and economically the MLS has already passed LigaMx. So when MLS decides to outspend LigaMx the foreign talent LigaMx depends on will migrate north at a faster rate for the same reason the 2026 bid has a ratio of 7 games in MLS territory to 1 game in LigaMx.

    Reality changes before perception because most people lack critical thinking skills so they follow the herd like sheep. Around 1980, few people realized that Mexico's National team dominance in the region was rapidly nearing its end. On the positive side for the National team Mexico will increasingly get more Americans of Mexican heritage that don't think they have a shot for the US team much like the US currently depends on German players with American ties.
     
  23. tigersoccer2005

    tigersoccer2005 Member+

    Dec 1, 2003
    North Bergen, NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For those who will be interested in how this tournament ends:

    The 1st leg of the CONCACAF Champions League Final is tonight
    Tigres vs Pachuca tonight on Univision Deportes Network @ 10 pm (live).

    Return leg next week April 26th.

    History and experience would seem to favor Pachuca as a multi time CCL winner who knows how to step up in big games, however lately the team has looked flat and has had great trouble scoring. Tigres on the other hand is young team with lots of energy, hunger to win, and seem to have an easier time generating opportunities. This is the 2nd year in a row Tigres reaches the finals. Who will win out?
     
  24. Len

    Len Member+

    Club: Dallas Tornado
    Jan 18, 1999
    Everywhere and Nowhere.....I'm the wind, baby.
    Are you sure? That seems odd to me. Friendlies, I thought, were opportunities to experiment with lineups/tactics/etc - seldom two full-strength teams. So to reward - or punish - a team for a result under those conditions seems a bit unfair.
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  25. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's in there .. it just has the lowest multiplier attached.
     
    Len repped this.

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