MLS Hater Jeff Kessler Finds New Dupes

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Bill Archer, Apr 1, 2016.

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  1. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When it comes to professional athletes not standing for the anthem, it's not really a freedom of expression issue. It's actually more of a workplace rules question. I wonder if the NFLPA collective bargaining agreement allows the league and/or individual teams to punish a player for not standing during the national anthem. NFL players aren't some poor, powerless, disadvantaged mooks. They're multimillionaire celebrities who are protected by employment contracts that were negotiated on their behalf by people with very high LSAT scores.
     
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  2. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I have the opposite take on this. To me, this is protesting for the sake of protesting. Garfield is a very diverse school and also segregated, but much of the reason for that segregation is the fact that "gifted" students from other neighborhoods are routed there and they tend to be predominantly Asian and White. What does the football team want to be done about that?

    Seattle is an amazing liberal city, probably the most liberal city in the US. It has a liberal mayor and city council. It has a very liberal school board that is racially diverse. The Principal of Garfield is African American. I was visiting some friends there and we went to the pride parade and every major Seattle corporation made a point of having a float there. Even leaving aside private schools, acceptance to the UW is based primarily on grades and test scores, things under control of the students themselves.

    What do they want? An end to injustice in the world? You won't get that by kneeling at a football game. If they actually cared about something specific, Seattle is an environment where they could get it for the asking.
     
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  3. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And yet Seattle has had serious issues with its police force over the last 2 decades (well, probably longer than that). Considering that's the main issue they were addressing I'm not sure the fact that Seattle is liberal, pro-LGBT, and fairly diverse really applies (all of those descriptions are true about Seattle, I'm not debating that).

    I'd also argue that even if this is pointless and/or they're wrong, that's also a lesson I'd want them to learn rather than having the teachers/adults step in and say "No, you can't do that". If any of those kids are going to go on and make real change in the world, for better or for worse, they need to learn what works and what doesn't and what consequences their actions have.
     
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  4. Quinn 33

    Quinn 33 Member+

    Apr 25, 2003
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. Especially for top-end universities and Ivy League schools.

    Unless you're a legacy, admission departments have basically gone "all-in" to fill those racial quotas. Its not just impacting whitey either, Asians who frequently perform very well academically are now starting to run into roadblocks when applying to colleges because the quota has already been filled.
     
  5. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To bring this back to topic for a second, looks like the WNT is almost assured to strike. First, does the USSF preempt and lock out and second will this be a blow to the NWSL or will it highlight a rift?
     
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  6. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have to start somewhere with instilling the knowledge that authority isn't always "right" just because it's an authority.

    Ask any Indian boy that's been told he has to cut his hair or can't wear braids or a scalp lock because it doesn't conform to the accepted dress code.
     
  7. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess there's no longer a benefit to being the "model minority" and/or "almost white"
     
  8. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Due to affirmative action policies that disfavor them, which is crap. All applicants should be treated equally.

    Interestingly enough, the average Japanese/Chinese American person makes more money than the average white person.
     
  9. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How can an opinion that our limited resources should be devoted to other areas than single-gendered bathroom stand as a "false equivalency?"
     
  10. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I think you're quoting me, not Potowmack.

    Then protest the dress code. I'd be in favor of that. That's standing up for something specific.

    These protests (Rapinoe, etc) aren't moving a conversation forward or trying to get results. There isn't even an authority to stand up to. It's like the occupy protests. Everyone get to feel good about themselves by protesting injustice without having any idea of what to do to get justice.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would just go over your head.
     
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  12. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Insults insults insults from Mr. Warmth, as typical. And then frequent emotional argument. Do you even post about soccer?

    Humans tend to suffer from a cognitive dissonance where they particularly overvalue harms associated with intentional acts by other humans, but devalue greater harms that are considered mundane or expected. For example, two bombs went off, but no-one died. The news is non-stop concerned with terrorist attacks. Yet hundreds of people died from more mundane (but) preventable causes this weekend. That's not interesting to humans.

    Driving deaths is but one example of the hundreds of more worthy causes. And that some efforts are taken to combat it does not mean that it is not an issue of more worthy causes.

    What stats do you have that shows a significant number of people are being arrested for trying to use the wrong bathroom?
     
  13. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, we could do that, IF the quivering masses of people afraid of people who are transgendered wouldn't tolerate legislation against transpeople out of the belief that when the privacy of transpeople can be invaded, so can theirs.

    But that's not the way fear works, is it?
     
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  14. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Define "equally."
    I'm pretty much a utilitarian too, but this strikes me more as a talking point/excuse, given that seriously, how many "resources" does it take to address this issue? We aren't sending a man to Mars.
     
  15. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess you should grow a skin. It's much less than gets directed at people in the real world when there is the pseudointellectual defense of a bigot like Cosmo.

    What won't be of newsworthy concern is when some clown or four decides to beat the shit out of some AAAAARab over those bombings.

    Some efforts? Clearly you don't have much of grasp of the work that has been done to reduce traffic related fatalities if you reduce it to "some efforts", because it has been a multi-billion, multi-decade effort to improve traffic/highway design, automobile design & engineering, manufacturer safety, trucking industry safety and eliminate the cultural acceptance of first, drunk driving and now, distracted driving via electronic communication.

    More to the point, what stats did the NC legislature have that transgendered people were assaulting or imminent threat of assaulting sexually people in bathrooms when they decided to enact the emergency legislation. There has to be that one case right. There have been several documented cases of "concerned" people either harassing and even assaulting a few women, ostensibly because they look too "butch" to be using a women's room.

    Other than the stats that Governor McCrory might lose the election so they need a red herring to stir up the base, I mean.
     
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  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #4366 Yoshou, Sep 19, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
    Most of the above is meaningless claptrap when it comes to race relations in Seattle. As @JasonMa pointed out, Seattle PD is one of the increasing number of major city police departments that is under DoJ supervision for a history of excessive use of force and discriminatory tactics towards blacks.

    Also, Seattle was all in on redlining back in the day and because of this it is still one of the more segregated cities in the country.. (http://depts.washington.edu/civilr/segregated.htm) Most African Americans still live in the Central District, with a smattering up in North Seattle where some public housing was erected back when that was a thing. As a result of this and Seattle ending its student busing program and a return to neighborhood schools, the schools are also very segregated. Along with that segregation, school performances vary, with majority-minority schools having generally poorer performance that primarily white schools.

    Of course, that is only part of the problem as Seattle is increasingly pricing out low income families, which is the economic range many blacks live in. As a result of this, minority families are being forced out of Seattle and into the neighboring area. Here's a map of where Blacks live in the Seattle area at the 2010 census. If you'll notice, blacks are highly concentrated in the South Seattle/South King County area with another concentration in the North Seattle/Shoreline area.

    [​IMG]

    So.. Long story short. These kids know about as much as anyone what it means to be Black in America and what it means to be discriminated against for reasons that are largely out of the control. Is Seattle a "liberal city", yes. But it is also a very White, segregated city that makes a lot of platitudes towards race relations, but has, so far, failed to address the inequalities.
     
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  17. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How much does ALEC get paid to craft these laws and how much does it take to defend them to the point of court reversal?
     
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  18. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Resources" to me includes all the energy to cover the issue in the media, as well as those used discussing it here. Again, its a distraction from more important issues.

    "Equally" means "not treating people differently based on race." If that means that our universities are 50% Asian, so be it.
     
  19. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Is that based on new reporting? I haven't seen that.
     
  20. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Of course it's an extremely white and segregated city, although I doubt that that being Black in Seattle is anything like the experience of being Black in certain neighborhoods of LA, much less Detroit or Baltimore.

    But what do you, or they, want done? If the cops are racist, fire the cops. If the police chief is racist and won't fire the bad cops, fire the police chief. It's not like these things can't be done.

    Again, take Garfield. It's well known as being a segregated school. How do you want to stop the segregation? And if minority students are performing poorly, what are you suggesting they do? Are you saying that the teachers are racist? The school board? If that's the case, OK, follow that to the appropriate conclusion. But if not, then what?
     
  21. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is such a thing as systemic racism.
     
  22. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    I didn't pay attention to non-game stuff, but they did say that during one of the broadcasts on yesterday. I assume it was the FS1 women's soccer broadcast.
     
  23. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Sure, but it's still people making decisions, it's not something in the water or the air.

    As Yoshou said, the poorer neighborhoods of Seattle are gentrifying rapidly because of the growth of the tech industry. There's an ongoing discussion there of what, if anything, the city should so about it. They could allow increased density, subsidize low income housing, etc. Or they could do nothing and the effect will be to push the poor out of the city. Since African Americans are disproportionately poor, it would have a disproportionate effect on that group. But again, it's a choice.
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is a pretty shitty comparison to make. Yes. Their neighborhoods are safer than similar neighborhoods in LA, Detroit, and Baltimore, but Seattle is a safer city in general than those cities. So, of course their neighborhoods aren't as bad as the worst neighborhoods in other areas, but, guess what, their neighborhoods are still the worst in Seattle.

    It is not as simple as firing the racist cops because the problem isn't that the cops are racist, its a systemic issue with how police in this country are trained and it is that training that results in biased policing. Firing racist cops doesn't do squat if the system is broken.

    Again.. It's not that people are racist, it's that the system is biased. As you noted, Seattle has a diverse school board and administrative staff in it's schools, but it is still failing blacks. Out of all the races, blacks still perform the worst in Seattle schools, even at Garfield where the gap between blacks and whites is less than the school district. It's not up to the kids to come up with the solutions to the problem, that's why the Seattle school board is paid the big bucks. However, the kids sure as heck can draw attention to their experience and that the school board is still failing to close the education gap.
     
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  25. Baysider

    Baysider Member+

    Jul 16, 2004
    Santa Monica
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    There is no system, there's only people. If the problem is that the police training is bad, it's the fault of the people who developed the training and the people who implemented the training. The training didn't fall from the sky. And most importantly, if you want to change the training, you need to change the behavior of the people doing the training.
     
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