MLS Flavors of the week: 2019 Edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sombrerito, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Long is exactly what we should want in our minor league players - he works hard, is athletic and has performed at a Best XI level for his league.

    Does that means he’s great? Nope but it does mean that he is the exact type of player who should be given strong consideration as a USMNT player. It’s not like we have multiple major leaguers who are playing at his position.

    Contrast this to certain non-elite MLS players who are given spine positions despite being non-athletic and not a Best XI candidate all the while not looking at major league players and it makes my teeth hurt....
     
    Mantis Toboggan M.D. and nbarbour repped this.
  2. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mueller scores on a header on a delivery from Nani. Their central midfielders and defense really struggles to win balls and build up a lot of times, but once they get it to their wide players in remote positions to do damage, they really pepper the opposing box.

    MLS PBP guy: "Chris Mueller has become a star for this Orlando team."

    He was already having a good overall game, helping Orlando play through pressure, hitting through balls, and beating his man off the dribble to get crosses/shots in. Time to scrap this myth he's just a super-sub.

    The biggest compliment he could have gotten came from opposing manager Dominic Torrent, who is the skipper least respectful of domestics in the league, especially attackers, and he said going into the game the players who concerned him the most were Mueller and Ruan.
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Every single post of yours, I’m waiting for you to push Wes to either the bench or to defense. Awesome.
     
    Namdynamo, btlove, TxEx and 1 other person repped this.
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Complain to Schalke. They are the ones who pushed him forward then back, i.o.w. out of cmid. Why am I being treated like some fool for doing what his own team does to him?
     
  5. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They’ve done it out of necessity. You’re not. He’s also still played the majority of his minutes for them as a CM.
     
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  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Lol. Maybe, just maybe, they did it because of an injury and he’s flexible.....

    You also probably thought that JOB should’ve played left back for us in 2002
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    2002. Hv no idea what you refer to but seems rare.
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes, he had a long spell at cmid then they moved him.
     
  9. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ok but they moved him because they had injury problems. He’s talented and a better option where they moved him to then the other back up would have been compared to the back up at CM. You’re moving him for different reasons. You don’t rate him as a CM. We get it. CM is a much much more important position than CB or where ever you want to move him next. Roldan isn’t good enough to warrant moving Wes. We also bring in our players a couple of days / weeks prior to the games. Injuries aren’t the same problem for the Nats as it is for club.
     
  10. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    club-level status and accolades are not objective enough for me. I don't think they should be used for determinging who gets called up and who doesnt....

    so much of what club, league, playing time, stats, goals scored, etc a player is in is so random and luck-based....a lot of "major-leaguers" don't perform like that on the USMNT and a lot of minor leaguers have performed better than you might think with the USMNT.

    You can tell me Long is "MLS Best 11" and it means almost nothing to me....(1) those awards are so subjective and dubiously awarded and (2) I haven't seen anything from him that is CLEARLY better than other defenders in MLS....very few players in MLS ever distinguish themsleves from the pack with their play....

    I just want someone who can see through all of the politics that goes into everything and select players based on talent and how well they would do on the USMNT because I don't think if you just went on "who has the best resume" approach it will mean the truly best players are called up.
     
  11. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You've created this false dilemma you need a lefty. Ream can't even get up the line to play a cross so it doesn't make much difference. Half the time at that spot you wish a left-foot dominant player would be able to cutback and play a square.

    Almeyda is willing to play Lima at left back because he's a better manager. And he's reaped the benefits. San Jose is on a strong run since making that move, among other things.

    Fabian Johnson wasn't left-footed. A lot of footballers are ambidextrous enough with their feet. Silly to exclude 90% of your pool for a fringe interest.

    But I don't want to get too bogged down into these conversations that are parallel to thread interest. There are several relevant matches tonight.
     
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  12. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1637 IndividualEleven, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    Hyndman with an assist in his first start--a 2-0 Open Cup win. The diagram showed he started at cam, with Pity on the right.

    Minnesota have been on a nice run. Gasper and Dotson got the start in their 6-1 Open Cup win.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I honestly don't see one position as more important than another. If somebody sees a position as less important I ask why the player can not be made more valuable since, in the premises, he is less valuable. Let's face it, Schalke fell apart when Naldo(cb) left. That was their most important position because he Captained Schalke to a Champion's League qualifying finish. Truth be told, he contributed as much to offense as defense. A bevy of midfielders passed thru that season with uneven results

    And we are wayyyyyy off topic so I'm signing off.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You’ve stated multiple times that you don’t believe in the global soccer meritocracy and you appear to think that there are elite attacking talents languishing in MLS and if given the chance would be equal to elite players.

    I think water finds its level and our players are by-and-large where they deserve to be.
     
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  15. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #1640 IndividualEleven, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    Adams was the best CM in the NT while he was in MLS. If he had signed a big DP deal I'm sure his bandwagon would've been less full.

    Aaron Long has been the best CB in the team. His league affiliation doesn't matter.
     
  16. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This Mexican GK seems to be in the right place every time for LAFC (vs. Portland). He wouldn't be US eligible by any chance? Well, well, well, says here he holds US citizenship.
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/players/pablo-sisniega

    Bienvenido, Pablo.
     
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  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    "deserve" - does a kid with an iq of 170 born in Sudan deserve to be at Harvard. If he could get a work permit, I guess:whistling:.
     
    tomásbernal and adam tash repped this.
  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Ebobisee!!!!!!!!!! 1-0 Timbers.

    Tough angle. Glad to see Severesi give Ebo the p.t. He deserves it. Very team oriented guy. Hope Timbers guys embrace him.

    Like I was saying about that Mexican gk LAFC are playing.....:oops:
     
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  19. justinpaul10

    justinpaul10 Member+

    Sep 2, 2013
    Ebo is a bit of a blend of Altidore and Zardes, less of their good qualities but his weaknesses are not as pronounced. Instinctive finishing if inconsistent does some good things with his holdup and has clever runs and works hard. We should aspire to something better (Sargent, Pepe, Soto, etc) but there is a lot to like and the kid works.
     
  20. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Maybe Pepe, Soto, Sargent, etc can get playing time with their clubs.
     
  21. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    exactly...

    even if you just compared the off-season situations of sabbi and amon.

    sabbi's club is struggling (apparently) to get any offer of 1m euro...whereas Amon's reportdely has a 3m euro offer....

    imo, sabbi had the better season.

    regardless, no matter who you favor, it is clear that a lot of what goes into valuations and later opportunites for players is political and how they fit into a larger economic system...their "waterlevel" is only a part of the equation.

    Looking at MLS ...you see a player like barco or pity martinez or kaku....good players..but barco has the same amount of goals as jordan morris, nick deleon, christian ramirez and a whole host of other players who are "not good enough" to really help the USMNT (if you buy that narrative that every player is where they are b/c the invisible hand controlling the soccer world is omnipotent and all-knowing and supremely just).....kaku cost like 7 mill or so...and has 3 g 3a on the year.....pity has 2g 4a and cost like 15-20m......

    the point isn't whether these players are "worth it" or not....

    it is that on the international soccer market....values are SUBJECTIVE......

    you could find a player for 200k in MLS that could give you 3g 3a if you are shrewd......

    just b/c money itself has a fixed value doesn't mean the things (players) that happen to have monetary valuations have fixed values!

    the player pool is very deep....(even if you think none of the players in the pool are good enough).....there are too many options out there to KNOW FOR SURE who is and isn't good enough based on superficial assessments and stereotypes etc....

    there are 10-15+ players at every position that could playing for the national team...you might think you know who is the best...but you don't. dismissing all the players who weren't chosen by whomever is in charge of the team b/c they weren't chosen is ridiculous.
     
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  22. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    #1647 adam tash, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    I think that there are incremental differences between all of the options and if maximized properly those incremental differences would equate to a potential huge difference in overall team performance....I don't think that players "on the margins" are all interchangable as most seem to....understandably, people seem to think that if you werent chosen for the team you probably arent as good as the "starters".....i just disagree with that. I think it is odd that people have already written off all of the us pool that is over 25 years and not currently included or named michael bradley.....and is clmaoring for the 20 year olds like they are the only options left.....the reality is a lot fo the best players in the USA right now are 25-35 and didn't play in the gold cup.

    also, I subscribe to the idea that playing on the national team can change the level of some players. it can be a springboard to new heights (conversely, exclusion can be a limiting factor in what players can become)..... I don't think Tony Sanneh, as just one example, has the world cup he did in 2002 if he hadnt been put in prior situations to get to germany and become the player he did. he doesnt get to germany at all if he doent play for the usa first. clint dempsey doesn't get to the EPL and become all-time us scorer if he wasn't included in the national team prior to getting his move to england, etc.....all of these players aren't just static entities that don't benefit or suffer from the environments and experiences they are afforded....and a lot of these players who end up benefitting from national team inclusion were not "no-brainer" obvious star-level national teamers before they got their first callups....no one knew dempsey would be the all-time leading scorer for the USMNT before he played for USMNT....hell he was drafted 8th in 2004!

    he didn't just become the player he did independently of the chances he got. he used his chance to actually play in MLS...to get a chance with the USMNT...and used the playing time there to get to the EPL...and used that chance there to improve and become a great player....but if along the way any of those chances had been not granted ....the end result wouldve been MUCH DIFFERENT and I would not be using him as an example right now.

    I'm not sure that any players not getting time would truly prove to be elite level talents..(i think there certainly could be and probably would be)...what I am sure of though is that....getting the best options onto the 23 would make a big difference in terms of how a team might do in a gold cup or world cup.....the margins are so small.....this last lost to mexico 1-0.....the loss to belgium 120 minutes....2-1.....if things break differently b/c the rosters were put together better...those games couldve been wins.....
     
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  23. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    If our Euro contingent isn't available (Sargent, Soto, Weah, etc.)................then Ebobisse is our likely starter at the CONCACAF U23 Championships later this fall. [Olympic qualifiers] Its really important that he gets in a confident groove.

    [Maybe, maybe.................Jesus Ferreira starts if his citizenship comes thru in time. He's hit a down patch recently.]
     
    50/50 Ball repped this.
  24. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ebo lead the line into the MLS Cup with Valeri and Blanco doing most of the goal scoring. I think he can be a better hold up 9 than Zardes right now.
     
  25. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I thought I read Honduras screwed up the paperwork.
     

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