Can we please give the kid some credit? I'm guessing the reason Reyna's kid is doing what he is doing is because Reyna's kid wants it.
And why does he want that? Might be that his teammates in the academy (that are only his teammates because they aren't used with the first team) don't play and he sees that.
To USSF it is. The same, basically. Of course not. But MLS has specific rules that creates an uphill playing field for domestic players. MLS also takes advantage of their USSF given monopoly to only offer American teenagers extremely club friendly contracts. Contracts no European or Mexican kid would be saddled with in their home country. Americans should have to fight for their place. But the decisions should be based on merit not salary or contract status.
Or maybe it’s because he was born in Scotland, and has an EU passport. This grants him the ability to move to and play in Europe prior to turning 18. It’s ironic how the majority of US fans conveiniently forget facts like this when they proclaim that players like Carleton (who is 17) should be in Europe already....
I didn't forget that. I just don't think thats the case. Not everyone who has a EU passport goes overseas and not everyone who doesn't have one goes to MLS. Its not a simple equation like that.
They have no motivation to go abroad. They keep signing extensions. 🔒’d in for the long haul@Alex25Bono re-signs with @torontofc📰: https://t.co/8KnRm4mvVV https://t.co/y9yTPT8iZ3— Toronto FC (@TorontoFC) June 20, 2018
They're professional players. They are also human beings, who have families. Not every player desires to play in a foreign country thousands of miles away from their friends and family. In a country where they might not know the language, culture, or anyone for that matter. Oh and when the coach gets fired or leaves, they could be stuck in a situation where they aren't playing and the club doesn't want to sell/loan them. If a player can make a very good living playing in the states and helping the game grow here why is that a bad thing? Ultimately a stronger MLS will lead to more kids wanting to play the game at the highest level. That will eventually lead to a stronger player pool for the national team.
There was a rumor that Horvath's team wanted to sign him as a replacement for Horvath. I don't know where exactly he had interest, but if he wanted to go abroad, he could've worked out some option. He's a good footballer. Maybe its doing what Perry Kitchen did, starting at a low level, and trying to move up. But that shows the effort. This current crop of players would rather stay in MLS with their oversized paychecks, and stagnate. Most of them do.
Rubbish. A player in Mexico who chose to stay at home for the paycheck probably wouldn't be called back into the National Team or would have their role lessened. The National Team coach there openly says he wants his players in Europe. In the US, its encouraged for them to play in MLS. Take the money, better life for your family, etc. And it very well might be true. I suspect Altidore, Dempsey, Bradley, Guzan all are better paid more money than they would've if they stayed in Europe and enjoy their lives more in MLS, but they've also stagnated or gotten worse. Our NT didn't qualify for the WC, and we wonder why. It might have something to do with our core players stagnating. We shouldn't be encouraging Bono, Acosta, Steffen, Roldan, Trapp, Parker, Zimmerman, players in that age range to sign extensions in MLS. They should be thinking that if they don't try their hand abroad, they'll lose their spots and be passed by the next crop who has more ambition.
And not only the MXNT coach but club owners alike push for players to go abroad while, you are right, here they are encouraged to stay. Although, the other poster does have a point though. It's easy for us to say they should leave but if you get paid well in a place you are very comfortable with it becomes difficult for them to leave. At least it will be difficult for me if I were in their shoes specially with family. But that hurts our NT.
Different players have different priorities. Kitchen left money on the table by going to Europe, which was admirable for his goal of trying to find a path to the highest possible level. Some players are just going to be more practical, and focus on the decent salary, established place on the team, state of the art facilities, preferred living situation for family members, etc. Plus let's keep in mind Bono is a 25 year old keeper. His options were always going to be a lot more limited than, say, Tyler Adams, who recently affirmed his desire to go to Europe.
Because Liga MX club owners know they are going to have good ratings and attendance, whether or not Carlos Vela stays home. Don Garber pines for Christian Pulisic because it would improve both. We just need to recognize that Don Garber does not want what is best for US Soccer. He wants what is best for MLS. And we need to keep him the hell away from any decision-making for the US Team, because of the conflict of interest.
Bono is a good goalie who I believe has a future with USMNT. I don't think it is as critical for keepers to go abroad to develop as it is for field players. Certainly would help, but I don't think it would change Bono's trajectory at this point. I'm assuming he will be making a decent salary and Toronto is a great city to live in. Most important, he will be a starter for years to come.
Andrew Carleton was genius in 5 minutes in the Open Cup loss to Chi just completed. I really like the way Tata is bringing him along. I've said before I don't think Andrew has to go abroad to become a world class player. Can't wait to see him integrated into senior USMNT. I'd like to see him get a call up this fall for Mexico game and give him some minutes. v, Mejico in September (p.s. edit: Wes and Pulisic will be on the threshold of CL with their clubs and new managers(Pulisic), new partners (Wes). Leave them at club.) --------------sargent----weah --------------------Carleton -------adams-----------------Delgado ---------------------Trapp -----v/fana---ccv--------miazga-----Yedlin ------------------gk: steffen
Keepers should be treated differently from field players. Subtract 4 years, IMO. Bono's a '94, but he's about where a '98 field player would be in their career. Adams is a '99, Palmer-Brown a '97, Glad a '97, Acosta a '97. One of them just left, another is about to leave, the other two should be leaving pretty soon. I don't know if I was clear. I'm not saying that Bono is making a bad decision. Its his life, and his decision. How could I possibly say whether its a good or bad decision? He can decide what he wants to do, but his priority doesn't seem to be playing at the highest level and improving as much as he can. If thats his priority, and if thats the priority of most players in MLS, we might as well make it clear to them that they are going to have a really hard time getting NT caps. Very few American players have stayed their whole career in MLS, and been able to contribute to the NT over the course of 5-10 years. The issue is not that they can't play well for the NT while being an MLS player. The issue is that most of them stagnate and don't improve while playing in MLS. The majority of them will not be able to be long-term contributors for the NT. Maybe they give you a good two years, three years (like a Beckerman or Clark).
This isn't the MLS forum. In this thread we mostly look at an individual's situation rather than what is going on at the organizational level, development wise because it's too late for most of the player deiscussed in this thread. Yes, a few clubs have started to address 16-20 year old gap. These clubs now need to produce players that can become flavors. Also, there is no need to be so biting. Also, people need to bitch if something isn't working.
Is Adams, who has performed well for more than one game, really the exception? Davies is the better player, after all. However, it's certainly the case that for the earlier 18-22 year-old products of MLS/college, success in the bigger Euro leagues was an extreme rarity, relative to present times. Those who had success tended not to reach and succeed in the bigger leagues of Euro until mid-career or later. Underlying this is that the trends in major tournament results, throughout the age cohorts, indicate the American player has been able to make up for the inadequacies of 16-20 development---eventually, with the creative players having the longest delayed maturation, to echo your comments. College/MLS products like Nguyen, Kljestan, and Feilhaber have been among the top creative players in the league. But none became mainstays in central attacking positions before age 26---and 'only' in MLS. The situation has improved somewhat in that players like Davies, Osorio, Delgado, and Mueller could probably start in central attacking positions, whereas the earlier group likely weren't good enough at younger ages. In terms of young players having success in the bigger leagues of Europe, McKennie, Yedlin, Miazga, and EPB(I'll go ahead and throw him in there) represent a nice uptick in fortunes of the MLS/college group. Davies and Adams will likely join them by next year at the latest. That 21 teams have USL affiliates, and thus clearer paths to the first team, portends a larger pipeline. That an 18-year-old should go elsewhere mental and tactical development reflects a truism of any field: go get the best training possible. But if any kid is a regular in a Champions League qualifying B1 team after just one year in their academy, he was already 'developed'. Otherwise, Schalke could sprinkle the magic dust on others and conquer Europe.
Will it? It seems like a stronger MLS, financially, just means more guys stay here and take the money. They have no competition for their spots and never get better. That has been the pattern the last 5-10 years. Where is any evidence that a stronger MLS pushes kids to want to play in the Champions League? Luckily, the UCL and EPL, are much more popular here than MLS. It is watching that on TV, along with a desire to be the best, that will push the kids with the mentality we need to play at the highest level.
Hamid is basically the same player as he was 6 years ago. He never had to get better. He played seasons for DCU and never had to address any of his flaws. He wasn't good enough to push Howard out of the NT when Howard is letting goals in left, right, and overhead. He can't get in the starting 11 for a good Danish team. He was an MLS all-star. You only get better by overcoming failure. Delgado also signed an extension. If you sign a new contract after your HG deal, you are never leaving MLS. That is fine, but I don't see a NT future with MLS lifers anymore.
Stagnation and the American returnees Tim Howard: was close to being washed up by the time he had returned in '16. From a Nats standpoint, he should have been put to international duty pasture at the end of the Copa. Michael Bradley: stagnated after suffering nerve damage to his foot--in '13. He returned to MLS in '14. Jozy Altidore: an early maturer whose effectiveness as an international never rose significantly above the promise he had shown in those early years. No amount of magic dust from La Liga, EPL, and the Eredivisie could fix his poor instincts around the area. I hear Schalke has some strong stuff, though, so maybe he should have tried the B1. Clint Dempsey: returned in '13. Went on to score two goals in the World Cup and scored 3 goals and 3 assists in the Copa. No stagnation there. His game has obviously declined in '18, which is most probably due to age and motivation(no WC to fight for). Jermaine Jones: not a returnee, per se, but came to MLS in '14 and went on to have a pivotal role in the '16 Copa, in which he had a goal and an assist while dominating central midfield. If anything, MLS gave him the space to evolve the attacking side of his game.
Yeah, I don't buy the "coming back to MLS made these USMNTers so much worse" narrative. Bradley is really the most likely example of this, and there is the alternate explanation of his injury for his drop-off. Dempsey, Jones, and Howard were all at the age when you'd expect a drop-off anyhow, and as you point out, Dempsey and Jones still had some great performances after coming back. I think Altidore has maintained roughly the same level of moderate, inconsistent effectiveness throughout his USMNT career, regardless of whether he's been in Europe or MLS. I think the more believable anti-MLS narrative is that MLS lifers are unlikely to develop to a level such that they can be significant contributors for the USMNT. Donovan (and as we know, his was a complicated story) and Pope are pretty much the only examples that spring to mind of guys who played the vast majority of their careers in MLS and were difference makers at the international level.
It's best to judge player development in MLS on a case-by-case basis, basis. SKC were a great situation for Zusi and Besler. Marvell Wynne should have left MLS. NYRB have been a great spot for Tyler Adams. Moving for him will be about the $$$$ and going on to bigger and better things. Ditto for Davies. Tommy Thompson needs to move either within the league or out. Same with Ebobissee. The Revolution have been horrible for Kelyn Rowe's development.
Hamid has a basic flaw to his game that isn't going to get better at this point. Great reflexes but his footwork is not solid, at all. Footwork is something that had to be addressed back when he was 18. I'm surprised he had any decent offers in Europe. Bono is pretty solid. Certainly better than Horvath. Would he get better sitting on the bench in Europe? If there are 3 better keepers than him for the NT and they are all from Europe, great.