MLS Flavors of the Week, 2018 Edition

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by TheFalseNine, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Much to the chagrin of many USMNT fans............Claudio is right.
     
  2. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Claudio's also helping ship his son overseas.

    To BVB it appears.
     
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  3. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    How ironic. As Jond said, he's sending his son elsewhere. Why is that?

    I don't even know if thats what Reyna thinks, but what else can he really say? His coach didn't play young Americans. Is he going to start criticizing Vieira's managerial decisions? No, he's not. He's going to defend his usage of these players without actually calling them out by name. Same thing I think Bocanegra would say.
     
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  4. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    What's 'ironic' about Reyna's kid potentially going to Dortmund? Did Reyna claim NYC was the best, most competitive environment out there? And it's pretty hard to break into BvB's XI as well.
     
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  5. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We all want that environment, we all do. But its frustrating when you see kids who I think have rightly earned PT not get it in MLS. EPB, Carleton are two that come to mind.

    What could help...
    1) Play your kids when your team are out of the playoff race or are just crap. There is no promotion/relegation. There is literally 0 harm in playing the kids in August/September.
    2) More MLS to MLS loans. AC could be playing weekly in MLS. Atlanta United is just an absolute wagon up front so there is no room for him. Too good for USL.
    3) If I'm a team like the Revs or the Rapids, if I can develop a young American player, makes his international debut, and he balls out in the Gold Cup at like 19 years old then earns a $20/30million move to Europe...that homegrown NO FEE money, could really change the direction of the franchise.

    *Side note - MLS publicizing EPB's move to Man City after he 1) doesn't play for SKC and 2) leaves on a FREE, was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in relation to this league.
     
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  6. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can we stop being facetious? All playing time is certianly not always earned.
     
  7. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    #2107 IndividualEleven, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    The problem here is the line of thinking along the lines of 'i think X kid deserves loads of time with the first team'. Unless you're the kid's mom or crazy uncle, the aggregate of young players getting time in the league is a more important metric for the National Team.

    After all, who outside of a given team knows the goings on in that teams practices or knows the considerations of the coaches?

    And Carleton is only 17(soon to be 18), and a wee player at that. Let the kid breathe.
     
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  8. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On Carleton, and perhaps unfair to him individually, is more a representation or symbol of the collective that MLS and USSF still has a ways to go to improve the youth development structure of this country.

    If say, Vasquez, Bello, Kunga, Robinson, Garces, and Goslin were all logging minutes with Atlanta United meanwhile Carleton wasn’t, then the conversation would shift that maybe it’s something Carleton is doing wrong, not Atlanta United. However, we’re not seeing Atlanta United play ANY of their kids and Andrew Carleton is simply the lightning rod to say something is wrong with that picture. Of note, I’d like to add that I’d like to see Brandon Vasquez receive more opportunities. The talent is there but he’s raw and unpolished; which only way he can improve on that is game time. So, this isn’t just Andrew Carleton’s problem. The problem is that MLS clubs are not providing youth players a pathway to the first team.
     
  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are MLS clubs operating that way? Why are MLS clubs paying more money with higher risks to sign young foreign players when they could use cheaper American players.

    Claudio Reyna, who is NYFC's Sporting Director responsible for player acquisition told you why. Perhaps you should start there?
     
  10. mattjo

    mattjo Member+

    Feb 3, 2001
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2110 mattjo, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    Why are German clubs doing the same thing?

    I count maybe three German teenagers with significant minutes (Arp, Havertz, and Geiger); Meanwhile, you have 7 foreigners: an Englishman, 2 Americans, 2 Frenchmen, a Dutchman, and a Greek also getting minutes).
     
  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a slippery line. We want them to earn their way but also don't want permanent or systematic impediments to that end. If a team has a very good to great prospect they need to find a great loan situation or create a pathway to realistically challenge for a spot. Not too easy, not too hard, just right.
     
  12. STR1

    STR1 Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    May 29, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nothing to do with MLS but Donovan just got kicked out of Leon. All that stuff he told Herculez about how Mexicans are treated here that he should stand behind MXNT (as if that has to do anything with soccer) just bugged me. In Leon's twitter page Donovan is getting hammered by Mexicans, fans of Leon, for basically sucking and being glad he is gone. I usually don't enjoy stuff like this but since it's Donovan and wanted to get political with Herculez, this brings a smile to my face.

    On a side note, I never understood why Leon brought Donovan out of retirement to play for them. I saw it more as a marketing move. Similar to what MLS gets slammed for by everyone.
     
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  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    No, I don't want them to be competing for a spot in MLS. Its a low level league, lets stop talking about "competition" in MLS. The competition is a bunch of players who couldn't cut it at the highest level, otherwise they'd be in a top league, not MLS.

    Let them all play (within reason). You are kidding yourself if you think MLS has moved up more than a spot or two in its standing around the world because of these foreign signings. Its not a top league. The league should stop acting like it is. Let the Americans play. Its hurting our NT.
     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It was totally a marketing move and not a particular well executed one. But the American soccer media ate it up. If you checked the twitter feeds of the top American soccer journalists you would probably total hundreds of tweets about Donovan in Leon and maybe a couple by Brian Sciaretta about Antonee Robinson at Bolton.
     
  15. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Every club on the planet will operate the same way. Their technical directors will bring in the best young talent that they believe will make their clubs successful. That is essentially Claudio's point.
     
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  16. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The development environment in Germany is tailored so that 16-20 year olds do not need to play with the first team to be prepared for that level

    When they are brought into the first team they are ready to compete.

    The pro development path for 16-20 year olds in the states is a complete wreck in comparison. Imo, a stint in the USL or college does not prepare one for MLS level play. Most homegrown/younger players develop best by playing in MLS for this reason.
     
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  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I wonder why somebody like Beckham(&Canosa Bros. a this point) don't go together with these guys to bring their Miami FC into the future.


    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...ld-largest-us-mall/ar-AAyRhAx?ocid=spartanntp

    and create an air conditioned space with room for training facilities and make the stadium a good venue for concerts also.

    Having a great training space could help in exploiting the local talent which should be ample considering how many people from South America live in the area.

    I think a traditional stadium for a summer league like MLS will be a bad problem
     
  18. Mr Wonderful

    Mr Wonderful Member

    Jan 19, 2015
    The Shores of Puget Sound
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Look dude, if you want a professional soccer league that plays lesser talented Americans at the expense of more talented foreigners then you're gonna have to start your own goddammed league.

    MLS doesn't operate that way.

    No professional sports league operates that way.
     
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  19. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2119 Susaeta, Jun 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
    I like him. I know others are anxious to move him to right back because there are some gaps in his game now. I would urge some patience. At this age, you focus on what the kids do well, and patiently coach through the flaws. I see three critical areas for improvement in Adams’s game:

    1. Off the ball running. It is slow and often lacks purpose. This limits the impact he can make in possession and linking, and makes it easy for opposing midfielders to close him when he receives the ball.

    2. Turning out of pressure. Defenders can easily force Adams to pass laterally or backwards, and he rarely tries to turn, feint, or move past pressure. He is quick enough that he should be able to. He should spend a lot of time in small space drills where he maneuvers out of pressure to make forward passes.

    3. Vision. He sees close players fine. He needs to see the bigger field and eliminate defenders by getting the ball behind them. He has shown glimpses of this, but usually when he has a lot of space and time.

    None of this is unusual for a 19 year old midfielder. I think when Red Bull Germany signs him, they will invest time and training into him as a mid before shifting him to other roles.
     
  20. Susaeta

    Susaeta BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 3, 2009
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NYRB is one of two organizations who are way ahead of the rest in MLS, along with RSL. They developed Adams on a team that Dallas still lacks - their USL affiliate. And their coaching for 16-20 year olds is better, too.

    And yet, Adams is the exception that proves the rule.

    MLS lacks the structure and quality coaching to develop 16-20 year olds. These players need a level lower than MLS to work on the technical fine points, and mental tactics to prepare themselves for the professional game. Asking players - especially creative, attacking players - to go from Academy / College ball is a bridge too far. It is why there are so few American attackers in MLS. They need time and opportunity to develop their games.

    It is improving, with some teams upping their youth development game over the past 3 years. But given the chance, an 18 year old is still better off getting the mental and tactical development they need elsewhere. One player, and one game, is not a great case otherwise.

    Still, I am encouraged by some of the more recent youth opportunities. Long-term, the best place for young Americans to develop is in the USA.
     
  21. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus. The fact you need to explain this is mind blowing.

    If players want to play then they need to perform at every opportunity. If your not doing that then you don't ********ing play. MLS isn't a charity. I want my team to field a team that will win not give spots based on potential. Earn your playtime and get better in the process or not and ******** off to 3rd division Norway.
     
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  22. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The bigger issue is that most of the league hasn't yet figured out what the NY Red Bulls, RSL, and Philly have. Each of these teams has a path to the pros setup. Each club has a philosophy and playing style that is implemented at each level so all of their teams play the same way.

    Philly hired Brendan Burke to coach Bethlehem Steel. Burke used to be the coach for Reading United, which has a history of producing MLS players. Burke was integral in that, and is now a very important part of Philly's path to pros setup. Now players in their Academy that show the promise and drive to possibly make it at the pro level are invited to train with the USL team as well as the Union. Some academy players are even earning USL minutes prior to turning pro. The Red Bulls and RSL are setup in a similar manner.

    Unfortunately this setup takes time and commitment to implement properly. Most of the league is just not there yet, which is understandable as nearly half of the teams in MLS have been in MLS for less then a decade.

    You can't just a wave a hand and all of this is in place for every team. Real life doesn't work that way. Patience is needed. It's happening. Is it happening as quickly as a very vocal part of the fanbase would like? Definitely not. Is it happening at a quicker pace than the fanbase realizes? For certain it is.
     
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  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Actually, MLS is a charity. They get a ~$60 MM/yr subsidy from the USSF. Any other league get that? That MLS takes that money and spends it on young foreign players who get gifted playing time is not a problem for you? That 80% of MLS teams have no idea how to develop a first team player or don't even try?

    If MLS wants to be a real league that can put rosters together with zero thought of American soccer, then dissolve SUM and return the USMNT and USWNT marketing rights to USSF.
     
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  24. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is MLS really a charity? Is SUM the same as MLS or different? Should US Soccer dictate MLS rosters? Please give me some insight into your world.
     
  25. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A well constructed post and eloquently stated. I'm just so tired of ignorant people with dumb ideas that can't gather the resources to respond properly anymore.

    I could tell people first hand what the RSL path to pros is like and what it's done/doing for youth soccer in Phoenix but, ******** that let's bitch about Carlton,SUM, and how USL is a pub league.
     
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