That seems like a very narrowly minded opinion from an mls fan. So I actually understand perfectly. Let’s leave Sweden aside, but it would be way to complicated. If I had an 18 yo talented kid, I’d 100% encourage him to go play in Belgium. It would be a much better place to grow a career.
I thought in both matches the superior teams (Toronto and Seattle) both played very Italian tactics (i.e. practical).
It's nice seeing teams trying to play the ball on the ground through the middle as all 4 did last night.
Not the most entertaining game, but Columbus had some nice link up plays towards the end where they could've stolen it. Oh well. Columbus/NYC was a blast, probably the most entertaining soccer I've watched this year. MLS is what it is, usually more of a middle ground between entertaining and ugly. Not that this means our top guys should be in MLS ASAP, but the funny thing is I pretty much never see people endorsing this option unless they're trolling fans who don't hate MLS. Oh, and Deadspin ripping that game but giving Liverpool a tongue bath because of a highlight of a tap in goal. And uniroically describing it as "cheeky." I haven't seen that degree of poserdom since the sixth grade when punk culture began to infiltrate lunch room conversations.
Liga MX dominates MLS. Liga MX is probably mostly about C'Ship level. It's certainly not near EPL level. That means MLS is much closer to League One level. And League One isn't >= Belgium. As for Sweden, MLS players who've gone there have pointed out the superior tactics/tempo. But MLS is the choppiest level/style I've ever seen. The quality of play is quite low due to the salary structure but you then get a few high level players sprinkled throughout due to DP/TAM. Portland won MLS Cup a couple years ago, then got knocked out of CCL by Saprissa, a CR club a few months later. SKC won MLS Cup, then got whooped 5-1 by Cruz Azul. When the league champs can't beat a CR club or compete with Cruz Azul, that doesn't really suggest >= Belgium. But that's just me.
Does being European and American improve your opinion? As fan of the USMNT who is deeply interested in our eligible player getting to top leagues and then top teams in those leagues, ease of mobility and track record of a league plays an important role in my opinion. The few games I’ve watched of the Belgium league have seemed to be at higher level than most if not all of the MLS games I’ve see. As for player movement, I’ve included below all the players that moved to the big 5 leagues as well as Brazil, Portugal and The Netherlands. There be some that aren’t in 1st division teams but pretty sure we don’t see this kind of movement with mls players. I’ve also left off players that returned from a loan to sides like Juventus, Milan, Chelsea, Monaco, Valencia, etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgian_football_transfers_summer_2017 Date Name Moving from Moving to Fee Note Brazil July 22, 2017 Rafael Galhardo, Anderlecht to Cruzeiro Free Portugal June 6, 2017 Joãozinho Kortrijk, to Tondela Undisclosed July 10, 2017 Paolino Bertaccini, Genk to Arouca Undisclosed July 15, 2017 Rúben Fernandes, Sint-Truiden to Portimonense Undisclosed Germany August 31, 2017 Ishak Belfodil, Standard Liège to Werder Bremen Loan Spain July 7, 2017 Jorge Pulido, Sint-Truiden to Huesca Undisclosed August 7, 2017 Tomás Pina, Club Brugge to Alavés Loan England June 30, 2017 Henry Onyekuru, Eupen to Everton Undisclosed July 7, 2017 Ibrahima Cissé, Standard Liège to Fulham Undisclosed July 12, 2017 Liam Bossin, Anderlecht to Nottingham Forest Undisclosed Italy June 18, 2017 Keres Masangu, Mechelen to Roma Undisclosed June 21, 2017 Sebastian De Maio, Anderlecht to Bologna Undisclosed June 26, 2017 Pierre-Yves Ngawa, OH Leuven to Avellino Undisclosed July 1, 2017 Adam Marušić, Oostende to Lazio Undisclosed July 7, 2017 Timothy Castagne, Genk to Atalanta 6.000.000 € July 27, 2017 Bram Nuytinck, Anderlecht to Udinese 3.000.000 € The Netherlands June 9, 2017 Jellert van Landschoot, Club Brugge to Eindhoven Loan July 4, 2017 Lex Immers, Club Brugge to ADO Free June 27, 2017 Hervé Matthys, Anderlecht to Eindhoven Undisclosed July 1, 2017 Samy Mmaee, Standard Liège to MVV Loan July 12, 2017 Wout Faes, Anderlecht to Excelsior Loan July 12, 2017 Arne Naudts, Cercle Brugge to Helmond Sport Undisclosed July 12, 2017 Lars Veldwijk, Kortrijk to Groningen Undisclosed July 19, 2017 Jorn Vancamp, Anderlecht to Roda JC Loan August 11, 2017 Christophe Janssens, Genk to MVV Loan August 17, 2017 Robert Mühren, Zulte Waregem to Sparta Rotterdam Loan August 23, 2017 Jannes Vansteenkiste, Antwerp to Roda JC Undisclosed August 24, 2017 Dylan Seys, Club Brugge to Waalwijk Undisclosed August 30, 2017 Ricardo van Rhijn, Club Brugge to AZ Loan August 31, 2017 Luciano Slagveer, Lokeren to Twente Loan France June 6, 2017 Romain Reynaud, OH Leuven to Andrézieux-Bouthéon Free June 10, 2017 Lukas Lerager, Zulte Waregem to Bordeaux Undisclosed June 12, 2017 Pierrick Valdivia, Sint-Truiden to Nîmes Undisclosed June 15, 2017 Jean-Luc Dompé, Standard Liège to Amiens Loan June 17, 2017 Soualiho Meïté, Zulte Waregem to Monaco Undisclosed June 22, 2017 Stef Peeters, Sint-Truiden to Caen Undisclosed July 3, 2017 Quentin Beunardeau, Tubize to Metz Free August 31, 2017 Mathieu Dossevi, Standard Liège to Metz Loan August 31, 2017 Frédéric Duplus, Antwerp to Lens Undisclosed August 17, 2017 Yassine El Ghanassy, Oostende Nantes Undisclosed August 17, 2017 Kalifa Coulibaly, Gent to Nantes 4 million € July 17, 2017 Birama Touré, Standard Liège to Auxerre Undisclosed July 17, 2017 Mohamed Yattara, Standard Liège to Auxerre Undisclosed August 31, 2017 Carlens Arcus, Cercle Brugge to Auxerre Loan July 21, 2017 Jean-Charles Castelletto, Club Brugge to Stade Brest Undisclosed
Well, the Allsvenskan pays less than MLS (around $65,000 less per player). The Belgian league pays substantially more than MLS (around $100,000 more per salary). I would personally lean towards Belgium being top heavy but having overall better play, where as Sweden is probably similar or a little weaker. It would be interesting to see mean player salaries but I imagine they have some discrepancies too. Anyway, here is a list of US players who played in Sweden and Belgium. Sweden was a good stepping stone for Davies and Bedoya (although given fans comments on Bedoya from the USNATs fan base, they probably wouldn't say they developed his skills). You can decide on your own whether either has been particularly adept at developing US talent. SWEDEN Gale Agbossoumonde – Djurgården – 2011 Alejandro Bedoya – Örebro – 2009–2011 D. J. Countess – Öster – 2006 Charlie Davies – Hammarby – 2007–2009 Mix Diskerud – IFK Göteborg – 2017– John Doyle – Örgryte – 1990 Romain Gall – Sundsvall – 2017– Brendan Hines-Ike – Örebro – 2016– Ryan Miller – Halmstad – 2010–2011 Hugo Pérez[n] – Örgryte – 1990 Samuel Petrone – Mjällby – 2012 Thomas Philipps – GAIS – 1988 Matt Pyzdrowski – Helsingborg – 2015–2016 Ryan Raybould – Gefle – 2008 Johann Smith – Kalmar – 2010 Brian Span – Djurgården – 2012–2013 Andrew Stadler – Östersund – 2016 McKinley Tennyson – GIF Sundsvall – 2001 Michael Thomas – Halmstad – 2010 Mark White – Hammarby – 1986 Josh Wicks – Sirius – 20 BELGIUM Onyewu Ogoochi Juan Pablo Torres Ethan Horvath Sacha Kljesten Nick Gkionis Devann Yao Jared Jeffrey
Thanks for the laugh. Did I write League One? I meant Ligue 1. I'm sure you are right but who and when? Maybe, because the talent is spread across 22 teams rather than being confined to the top 4-6 teams. Lincoln City beat Burnley in the FA Cup last season, which means that the National League (D5) is better than the Premier League? Lol, thanks for the laugh. Liga MX is above Championship Standard but nowhere near EPL standard there being a huge gap between the two. Did I claim it did? I'm sure the top 6 are better than MLS. What about the rest? That's the thing. When people compare leagues they are only talking about the top 5 or 6 teams. In most countries there's a drop off in quality below that. So compare MLS to the average team rather than the outliers. Belgium produces great players for such a small nation. But when players leave it doesn't help the quality of the domestic league.
I'd encourage reading about MLS' salary structure and player movement restrictions. You seem unfamiliar with the league's structure and are comparing it to foreign models.
Bros, don't tell Deadspin, but I bailed on Barca and Juve at halftime in favor of taking a walk while there was still some daylight left. 45 minutes of back passes to Buffon was enough for one day.
No. I wasn’t sure why you included that info. That is why asked the question. I guess I could have asked it in more generic way. I added the info about me as I thought it might provide perspective on my thoughts. I dont compare leagues as it isn’t an interesting discussion to me, doesn’t really add value to the conversation and the answer differs by criteria. You compared the leagues and made a definitive statement about two relative to mls. Now you are proposing a criteria that is heavily in MLS favor. If you want to remove outliers (still not a good comparison but is part of views on this discussion) then you should remove the top 5 or 6 players from each mls team as there’s a drop of in quality below. I compare places that I would like young Americans to play. I’d much rather a young American play in one of the top teams in Belgium than mls. I’d also prefer they play on a lesser team as they would likely have a bigger role than in an mls team and they would play 10-12 games against teams of a higher level... most importantly in terms of speed of play and technical & tactical sophistication. I believe either option would allow the a better opportunity to move to one of the top clubs in the league and then a bigger league than mls would provide. Who cares about the quality of the domestic league. Are Belgian fans crying for their almost 20 players who play in the EPL come home or are quite happy supporting their home side and pleased that the top players have put themselves in a position to improve as much as possible such that their national team has a better chance of success.
Maybe he should have added 'American' to talented kid. Leave the MLS as far in your rear view mirror as possible if you can and you're a young, talented American soccer player. The league isn't for you, clearly. Not sure how Belgium or Sweden are for youth but that's not my argument and it's a shallow comparison at best. I don't think either country when I think of sending a talented kid to develop his skills.
Perspective time. For 2017/18: Anderlecht: Tielemans(20) to Monaco for 25M Svilar(18) to Benfica for 2.5M Brugge: Izquierdo(25) to Brighton for 15M Engels(22) to Olympiacos for 7M Eupen: Enyekuru(20) to Everton for 8M Genk: Castagne(21) to Atalanta for 6M Gent: Coulibaly(25) to Nantes for 4.5M Oostende: Dimata(19) to Wolfsburg for 10M Marusic(24) to Lazio for 6.5M Waragem: Meite(23) to Monaco for 8M Lerager(23) to Bordeaux for 3.5M So that's 96M Euro, 113M USD in sales from this year alone, and I didn't include nearly all the sales, inter-league sales and only used players 25 and under(not all of them either). The total transfer amounts for the league is north of 125M for this year. Has MLS even approached half that amount in sales in its history? I don't remember the league selling anyone for even 2-3M over the last couple windows. BTW, last season Juplier had sales of 17M, 13.5M, 10M, 10M, 9M.....etc. MLS' record transfer is Jozy for 6.5M Euro almost a decade ago. Almiron will break that but still, slim pickings. Jupiler had seven sales for that amount or considerably more this year alone. Seems to me even a league like the Jupiler is a much superior developer of talent, has considerably better young talent and moves them to better leagues much more effectively than we do here, as the evidence suggests.
Not exactly sure where to put this but on a few threads I keep seeing MLS's ranking against other leagues. I found a site, Football Database, that ranks all clubs in the world. Seems like an impossible task and even though it says its updated I don't agree with a lot of the rankings but it still interesting to look at. The best MLS team is Toronto, ranked at 416th in the world, tied with the third best team in Qatar, an Argentinian D2 team that just got promoted from D3 and the second best team in Azerbaijan. In CONCACAF they are 19th, behind 13 LigaMX teams, 2 Costa Rican teams, 2 Honduran teams and a team from Guatemala. However they still list Chivas USA as a team so take that for what it is.
I dunno about that. 538 (a great website across the board) has Toronto at #198 and the average MLS team around 350. Given parity, I think Toronto is over-rated vs. the average (which feels about right). https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/global-club-soccer-rankings/
Just stumbled on this article: http://www.abc10.com/sports/the-difference-between-mls-and-european-soccer-leagues/497694846 The difference between MLS and European soccer leagues Taylor Sands, KXTV 1:44 PM. PST December 07, 2017
we were way off topic in the other thread so I moved the discussion here... there isn’t a good spot because of the range of topics being discussed. I also am breaking it into pieces as repsonses were getting way too long. Why would you claim the NASL was a retirement league and MLS isn’t? MLS is beginning to move in a better direction in terms of their signings, but continues to sign players in their mid-30s who in some case are more about marketing than quality on the field. The NASL signed some players who were past their prime, but they were also some of the best players to ever play the game. They also signed very talented players in their late 20s. Neeskens was 28, Chinaglia was 29, Bogicevic was 27, Granitza was 26, Netsolenge was 24 and on and on. The US sports market may be more saturated, but the popularity of soccer is significantly higher today or in 1996 vs the 70s and early 80s. The grass roots soccer movement of the 70s and the NASL improved the popularity and the quality of the US players dramatically. The talk of a saturated market is just another excuse to avoid dealing with the issues of MLS. There aren’t a lack of people who would pay to watch soccer in the US, but a lack of people willing to watch MLS. Huge stadiums get sold out for useless friendlies of Euro squads in preseason. Instead of appealing to those fans, they are labeled Euro snobs. The USMNT sold out a college stadium, while Mexican’s national team had over 70k in attendance. Then there are places like Atlanta that is selling out an NFL stadium. It sure seems like there is a market for the game unless you believe there are only Euro snobs, Mexican fans, and the rest live in Atlanta and Seattle. I have no problem with foreign players and it makes a lot of sense to have some to raise the level of the game and for marketing purposes. My problem is that the focus on the American player is so low on their priority list. The league has limited track record of taking young players (who aren’t physically mature) and giving them minutes and helping them mature into quality players. The introduction of TAM has cut back the number of spots for them as well. The ultimate success of the league will being successful will rest on the quality of the American players. Improving the quality of the American player such that they can fill out at least half the league is a long term project, but is still not a priority for a majority of the teams. If I were an English fan, I’d be highly critical of the EPL. The league is solely focused on money and has neglected the local players for many years. Their FA has finally started to try to address it and their youth talent has improved significantly. The EPL is the richest and arguably the most talented league in the world. As a fan of the game and specifically international soccer, I’d much rather have a quality national team and a league like the Netherlands and Belgium than an average national team and an EPL like league. The EPL and the NASL have a lot in common and are the leagues that MLS resembles the most. MLS has come a long way and had my support until they started interfering with the national team. I think what NYRB are doing is great and wish more teams would take their approach.
Maybe an American investor should buy a Belgium team, the league does not have strict foreign player rules, and seems like foreigners can buy in for cheap. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/09/...bs-and-foreign-money-a-modern-soccer-mix.html
Always worth remembering that because of the Cotonou agreement African players count as EU players. Also players from the Caribbean which is why Leon Bailey counted as an EU player when he was in Belgium.
It's more complicated than that. Various Mexican teams regularly play in Dallas. They will have a great attendance but if they come back six months later the second game has pretty dismal attendance. There is a big difference between a single game and a season of games. Also, marketing is very hit and miss in MLS. KC was crap under the Hunts but sell out regularly with their new ownership. Now Dallas has Hunt ownership and bad attendance but if Jerry Jones bought them and moved them to the JerryWorld Death Star and gave them the Atlanta treatment doesn anyone really think attendance would be the same?
Good news and bad news at DC. Good news: A new owner is buying a majority stake in the club. Bad news: DC may be continuing its descent into freak show status with acquisition of Balotelli. https://sbisoccer.com/2018/04/repor...-eye-balotelli-as-part-of-double-dp-additions I cant think of a worse city for Balotelli than DC. If Durkin wasn't eager to get out before, he certainly should be now.