REF: Chapman AR1: Wienckowski AR2: Hanson 4TH: Stott RAR: White VAR: Gantar Pretty much expected or close to expected. The Stott assignment as the 4th and not the VAR surprises me a little, but doesn't surprise @ManiacalClown , who nailed the first four assignments.
I wonder if the last minute appointments of Elfath and Grajeda on Semis influenced the MLS Cup assignments. I'm inclined to think so. Interesting how few current FIFA referees were assigned but a nice reward for Chapman on a pretty steady last couple seasons.
Not much factual basis here just a theory, so grain of salt.... If I remember right, Chapman, Elfath, Grajeda were the initial team that worked VAR through the infancy and then to it's actual execution. They were watching a lot of tape, worked a bunch of USL games together, and then ultimately were the "go-to" guys when it trialed in the league. Would make sense to go back to those three. PRO seems to have brought back a bit of the team assignment mentality that was in place 8-10 years ago. Certainly not every spot, but there are usually 1-2 guys per assignment who are paired (ex. Chapman/Hanson here). When I saw the initial assignments with Elfath being omitted completely while being considered for Ref of the Year, I figured he was on the final. Maybe PRO knew in advance that Marrufo could be out and they held him as a placekeeper....that's some advance planning though. Webb hire might be paying off.
Ah. I mean I think there’s a chance Elfath was fourth on the Final before he got the semi whistle. But other than that, it seems straightforward. You got Chapman, the two ARs that made the most sense given the semi assignments, and one of the two guys who really seem to be developing into VAR specialists. The Elfath swap might have mattered, but I don’t think the Grajeda one did at all.
There's also a big difference between the two substitutions. Elfath was not originally assigned to TOR-CLB in any capacity. Grajeda was already going to be working SEA-HOU as 4th official so it's extremely unlikely he would have had an additional assignment for MLS Cup in the original plans. Elfath could have theoretically lost a spot in the final, but he'd already had 3 assignments before this TOR-CLB so probably not, in my opinion. Based on the circumstances, I don't think these assignments were changed at all due to the substitutions in the previous round. Full disclosure: I guessed Stott at 4th because I'm always suspicious that he might retire, and there is precedent for an outgoing, highly respected referee to get the 4th on MLS Cup. That said, I don't have any inside knowledge of his plans. I just know he can't keep it up forever!
I agree with you. However, I also can’t fathom that a 4th would be Stott’s swan song. He’s not just highly respected, he’s the only person who started on the field with the league who is still on the field. Though it’s a nice touch, it’s also sort of going out with a whimper. The NHL has a tradition that long-term retiring referees don’t work the playoffs in their final year. That way, they get a regular season send off match. I’d like to see something like that with Stott, is possible, when the time comes.
I think that would be better for him, as well. Hell, I might be thinking of just Ricardo Valenzuela as far as "precedent" goes.
I think he's off (despite Taylor Twellman's argument otherwise), but I'm curious if this is a situation where they want the center to wait on the whistle for a potential VAR review. The pass to the offside player immediately resulted in a shot from 12 yards out with only the keeper to beat, but Chapman had blown the whistle.
Because the call was not clearly wrong. The camera angle from the other side made Jozy's upper body look much closer to the goal line, when in reality his shoulder is only a few inches closer to the goal line than his right knee. The Seattle player on the right side of the image kept him on. Maybe Jozy was a couple inches offside, but there isn't the camera angle to show it was a clear and obvious error.
Altidore and Torres have their feet in the same spot, but Altidore is leaning further over than Torres. Seems clear and obvious enough. Overall, seemed like a pretty typical MLS Cup Final. They let them play. Lots of "handballs," seemed like 5 or 6, don't think any of them deserved a whistle, though. TFC probably should have had a penalty at the end, threshold was set pretty high, though, so no call is consistent with the rest of the match. GG to any TFC fans reading here. You were the better team.
Point of fact - that ball has already left the foot. Since IFAB released the qualification that the ball was played when its first touched...this screenshot isn't accurate - and at this speed, yes it matters. I also know that gantar isn't drawing lines and shading halves to try to figure out if altidore is 1" at most off. Clear and obvious means clear and obvious which this to me is not. That doesn't mean that the call is right...just that there is no way you can say with 100% certainty this isn't.
While this isn't the correct frame as the ball has already left the foot, it's been pretty much confirmed through 3D modeling at this point that Altidore was offside by about half a yard. It looks WAY closer than that from the angle we have, IMO. I can understand why it wasn't clear and obvious, BUT if we had Hawkeye in place to model it in near real-time, this would have been called back, no question about it.
2017 Regular Season: 374 games, 3.53 Y/g, 92 R (0.25/g) HOME TEAMS: 1.68 Y/g, 39 R (0.10/g) AWAY TEAMS: 1.86 Y/g, 53 R (0.14/g) HOME RECORD: 208 W - 90 D - 76 L (1.909 PPG) 2017 Playoffs: 17 games, 3.53 Y/g, 5 R (0.29/g) HOME TEAMS: 1.53 Y/g, 2 R (0.12/g) AWAY TEAMS: 2.00 Y/g, 3 R (0.18/g) HOME RECORD: 8 W - 4 D - 5 L
And this is something that is going to cause issues--in the reverse direction--at the World Cup. I wrongly stated earlier in the year that Hawkeye would be used in MLS. The reason I said that was because Hawkeye was used at the U20s and Confed Cup (and is being used currently at the CWC). So, at the FIFA level with VR, every question regarding an attacker being in an offside position has an objective, black & white answer, down to millimeters. Yet that's not the case in many (most? all?) domestic competitions currently. So a goal that was good in MLS Cup would, apparently, be no good in the World Cup Final.
Yes, but isn’t that a good thing? The MLS goal may have been offside, but was too close to overrule with VAR. If the Hawkeye tech is good enough to call it correctly the first time, that would be fantastic.
It's from this. But I think it's putting the offside line too close to the goal line. Try putting your body in that position and make your shoulder 18 inches closer to the goal line than your bent knee. You'll fall flat on your face.
No, why would that be good? The same exact play in one competition is a good goal but in another it's not? Ok, I guess what you're saying in your first statement above is that it's a good thing that the decisions accurately reflect the available technology. Well, sure. But VR as a system should be uniform across the board. The very fact that offside position is objective in some competitions but subjective in others won't sit very well with most people associated with the game once they realize it.
[QUOTE="MassachusettsRef, post: 36151386, member: 14366". The very fact that offside position is objective in some competitions but subjective in others won't sit very well with most people associated with the game once they realize it.[/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s a question of objective vs subjective so much as levels of precision. All calls in all sports have some margin of error. VAR can reduce the margin of error from mere AR ability to process moving objects in real time. Hawkeye can reduce it further. (Whether either is worth the other costs that go with it is a different question—I’d still like to see them ditch VAR altogether, but not holding my breath on that one.)
While I'm thinking about it, is there anyone with access on gameofficials who can dump a complete list of the assignments for the year so I can confirm all the ARs/4ths/VARs? Mostly looking for September to present, but the whole year sure would be nice. Thanks in advance if anyone can help out!
On espnfc there’s a pundit clip (“Keller: Video review...”) which showed the views available to VAR- there’s an aerial view which shows the call to be razor tight.