MLS and American Talent

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by adam tash, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 adam tash, Mar 15, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2017
    Like anything in life, MLS constantly changes and evolves....The public has acknowledged this state of flux re: MLS by coining the phrases 'MLS 1.0, MLS 2.0 & MLS 3.0' to signify the differing versions of the league as it continues to adjust and tweak its rules/structure/format etc...actual changes in the league have been fluid and the differences between the different versions of the league have blended into each other....

    In the 20+ years of MLS many fans have started following the league at different points...many fans are new to the league and unfamiliar with previous versions and have different perspectives than I do on what the league is, was, and should/could be.

    As a USMNT fan who started following the league after it began after the 1994 World Cup, I watch MLS with an eye on American talent and the USMNT first and foremost. If there werent any Americans in MLS, I would stop following it. The less Americans there are in the league (especially ones who might become national teamers) the less interest I have in MLS. I know many people who follow MLS are not like me and do not share my perspective. Many MLS fans are fiercely loyal to their hometown club and care more about their club than any national team. These types of fans likely dont care about whether any of the players for their club are eligible to play for the us national team. Many MLS fans dont care (as much?) about national team soccer as they do about MLS. A lot of MLS fans are also preferential to other national teams than the USA.

    That said, from my perspective, I feel like this current version of MLS has perhaps begun to shift away from valuing American talent as much as it should/could.

    After 2 weeks of the season in 2017, there are about 70 established American field players who are starters, about 25 more American field players who are starting/have started a match but arent established MLS players yet and about 16 American goalkeepers who are starters. Goalkeeping has always been an american strength - it is the single position in MLS with the highest % of American starters, by far. If you include goalkeepers, roughly 110 of the 242 MLS starters in a given week are American. ...about 45% of players...which isnt bad...and in-line with historical %'s (that are on the decline)....if you only look at field players, its about 40% American....with ~32% of all starting field players being established american MLS players...which means the average MLS team has between 3 and 4 established american starters....some teams have more (dc, colorado, toronto, rsl, nyrb) some teams have less (portland, montreal, nyc, minn). A bunch of the newer teams seem to be the ones who play less americans. part of this is due to dilution of the talent pool. Clearly, the more teams in a league, the less domestic players each team can have.

    But I think there are more layers to this. when I look at teams like bayern munich or dortmund....the players who dont even make the bench for these teams have starred in world cups....goetze, for instance, can barely get on the field for dortmund. Schwiensteiger (a rumored MLS target) cant get on the field at ManU.... the big teams have deep rosters 30, 40, 50 deep with quality players. Sometimes, actually quite frequently, very very good players are forced to leave big teams because they cant get on the field. this isnt as much a reflection on their talent but on the scarcity of minutes the bigger a club's roster is. MLS teams have started expanding their rosters and can now have up to 30 players signed for a season. Clearly, the more players a club has on its roster, the harder it will be for any player to get on the field. As MLS expands its rosters, it will be harder and harder for new players to break through.

    That said, when looking around the league at who gets a chance to play and who doesnt, it seems to me that more promising Americans are being passed over or not given a chance to establish themselves than ever before. Here's a list of American MLS players that either will not be starters this season, havent started yet in the first 2 weeks of MLS, are not on a current MLS roster, or havent really been given a chance in their career to prove themselves on the field:
    1. jose villareal (never really given a chance to be a starter)
    2. mike grella (bench player)
    3. josh gatt (newly signed, yet to play)
    4. tommy mcnamara (benched)
    5. khiry Shelton (bench player)
    6. mix diskerud (released on loan)
    7. harry shipp (benched despite showing strong early in career)
    8. zac macmath (benched despite playing well/behind DP)
    9. London woodberry (bench player)
    10. kofi sarkodie (bench player)
    11. lamar neagle (bench player)
    12. alan Gordon (bench player)
    13. saad abdul-salam (benched)
    14. chance myers (bench player)
    15. erik palmer-brown (hasnt been given a chance yet/loan/injuries)
    16. jack mcinerney (released)
    17. amobi okugo (bench player)
    18. Miguel Ibarra (bench playe/hasnt been given a chacne yet)
    19. Bradford jamieson (hasnt been given a chance yet)
    20. Charlie davies (benched)
    21. Cameron porter (bench player depsite early promise and injuries)
    22. marco Delgado (bench player despite strong performances)
    23. coy craft (hasnt been given a chance yet - solid for youth national teams)
    24. femi Hollinger janzen (bench player - limited chances)
    25. jalen robinson (bench player - limited chances)
    26. dilly duka (bench player - strong early career)
    27. tommy redding (bench player - still young)
    28. hector Jimenez (bench Player)
    29. jonathan Campbell (benched)
    30. Brandon vazquez (hasnt been givena chance yet - promising youth player)
    to me theres a lot of talent on this list and almost every one of these players has shown either they are good enough to start in MLS or they are worthy of a chance. I can understand when an american finds it very hard to get on the field on a foreign team...but when it happens domestically, it rankles more. there was a time in MLS when players with similar profiles wouldve been starters and I dont think MLS is better off now that they arent....I know the USMNT isnt.

    here's a list of some Americans who have started in MLS through week 2 of 2017:

    1. justin Schmidt
    2. chris wingert
    3. david horst
    4. nick hagglund
    5. sal zizzo
    6. rj allen
    7. servando carrasco
    8. ethan white
    9. eric Alexander
    10. sam cronin
    11. scott Caldwell
    12. sean franklin
    13. sinovic
    14. Justin davis
    15. Andrew Jacobson
    16. Jordan harvey
    nothing against these players but its not like any of them are clearly superior to the guys on the first list.

    heres another list of foreign players who have started during the same span:

    1. baggio husidic
    2. roy miller
    3. lawrence olum
    4. demidov
    5. maxime chanot
    6. Alexander ring
    7. fabian herbers
    8. jay simpson
    9. Leonardo
    10. alvaro Fernandez
    Now if you asked me who do i want to watch? who would i prefer gets playing time...the first list or the 2nd and third combined?...its not even a question...clearly the first list.

    If MLS wasnt single-entity and players could actually choose their situations, i dont think it would be as bad of a problem as it is now. but since MLS is single entity and players cant choose which team they play for (by and large) then I think MLS has more of a responsibilty to these players to make sure their careers are maximized.

    MLS and US soccer need to look at how to maximize american talent and playing time as much as possible and improve the current setup that is too wasteful.

    90 american field players starting in MLS vs 120 is a big difference IMO

    despite MLS improving overall....i think MLS has actually gotten worse at making sure the career of every american player is maximized....and MLS could easily do so without suffering at all in quality.
     
  2. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I suspect this is going to be cyclical in nature. Right now there is a lull because a) there is a natural lull in the calibre of US talent available, and b) MLS is poised with interest and funds to fuel growth in key players moves and has been doing so to grow the appeal of the league. That latter point, combined with recent investments into academies, are long-term moves to improve the US talent pool and make more local players available and capable of contributing in the future. Especially if the league continues to grow stronger overall, meaning the up and coming players are facing better talent on a regular basis. I suspect that by the time we're debating the USMNT 2022 roster we'll see more US players making waves within MLS.
     
    When Saturday Comes repped this.
  3. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i dont think there is a lull at all. theres by far more talent in the us player pool now than ever. i think whats happening is that american players who are good enough/as good/ better than foreigners are being overlooked because teams can spend "new money"...and they are just hooked on it. teams with foreign coaches especailly seem to not want american players, especially attackers...nycfc, atl, montreal, minnesota, come to mind. its a new development that such talented americans are wasting away in MLS 3.0. that never wouldve happened in MLS 1.0 or rarely in MLS 2.0.

    to me there are plenty of americans making a great showing in MLS as it stands...but part of my point is that perhaps less talented americans are earning playing time over more-promising ones because coaches want these worker bee types to be americans and then they go all foreign pretty much in the creative roles....i think the americqn creative players have it espeically hard getting on the field in MLS because teams are gonna buy foreigners, if they do its gonna be attackers, and if they buy players...they are gonna play them no matter what. there just arent spots in lineups for americans...its not aht they arent good enough. theres no doubt in my mind that players like mix diskerud, jack mcinenerney, harry shipp, patrick mullins, etc are "mls quality"....its a numbers game not a matter of talent.

    i agree with your overall assessment of how mls has cycled through player development issues...and is poising itself to be able to flood its fields with homegrown talent within the next few world cup cycles.....but, again, i dont see the problem as one of lack of talent. i think what is holding back a lot of players from breaking through is lack of opportunity. with the way current rosters are constructed...there simply isnt much of a chance for the lower paid players to get on the field. as much as it shouldnt be the case, coaches certainly take salary into account when doling out playing time. so, homegrowns are always gonna face very long odds to "make it" regardless of how talented they are., merely because mls teams are going to want to protect the investments they have made in higher priced players that are ahead of them in the pecking order. for the few teams that have thrown their homegrowns out there...we have seen that they are indeed capable of swimming and not sinking. fc dallas and nyrb show that it is a matter of opportunity not talent at the fringes of MLS rosters. and thats true right now...let alone in 2 world cup cycles from now. bradford jaimeson, for example, scored in his first MLS start and has barely played much since. a lot of the players at the end of MLS rosters show well in their limited time...but never break through because the deck is stacked against them.
     
  4. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    A couple of things. Since MLS includes Canadian teams, you either need to add Canadian players and do a combined stat of domestic players. Or exclude the Canadian teams altogether when reviewing your stats. Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal don't have any inherent reason to play American players.

    As for your list of Americans, there's only a handful that have a strong case that they should be starting somewhere. Grella, McNamara, Neagle ... Maybe Campbell, Myers, Sarkodie, McInerney, Okugo and Shipp ... Some of these guys like Ibarra are new to the league, so give it a few weeks to see what they do.

    My guess is that at least a few of the names on your list will get starts at some point of the season
     
  5. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do think it's a lull that will normalize at some point.

    But one reason why the percentage of American players may be dipping is the increase in salaries, gradually. One of the biggest drawing points for the young American player was that they were historically cheap. So they served a purpose -- filling roster slots for lesser needed positions/depth/development at a discount price. Now, as salaries keep going up, teams feel like they can be a little more selective. Since they have to spend a little more money anyway, instead of giving a pro forma deal to a young college kid that's not going to play a lot, might as well look around to see if anyone better can fill those holes.

    Maybe.
     
  6. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think we have to also take into consideration that this is not FIFA 17 on Xbox or FM.
    Lists of players on paper is one thing...
    ..and seeing how players actually do on grass in practice and in games situations is another thing. Chemistry, cohesion, leadership, soccer IQ, locker room impact, and other intangibles can't be quantified in lists or even in statistics.
    Each manager has reasoning as to who starts and gets playing time and each have a method to their own madness of why some players play and others don't.
     

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