Edmonton is WAY too cold! A combined 10 years in Michigan, Wisconsin and Colorado was enough for me - although in my business you just never know... I did go to Jacksonville to see the Rowdies in October and was planning more trips this year now that I'm back in Florida. This year since I live near Orlando, I'll probably make the trip downtown to see the Rowdies take on Orlando City B...mostly to see the new digs for OCSC. Selfishly, NASL was a good option with the chances to see the Rowdies on the road. Of course, that wasn't the case for groups of supporters outside of Florida.
Can't really disagree with this. With the MLS push, some - maybe most - people currently griping about prices on the internet (because that's just what we do on the internet) will buy in anyway. The "walk up" sales will be the interesting part to me. Will people be turned off by the prices and decide to do something else? Or will they figure it's still cheaper than seeing the Rays and a fun time with the Mob? Speaking of the Rays, here's how you COULD look at your last point: the Rays are going to play the Yankees this weekend, but it's not THOSE Yankees, it's actually the guys who were in Spring Training camp wearing Yankee uniforms. I realize such an analogy is foolish - because the Rowdies are not in the top flight - but it's up to the club to sell those games. You've made the point that the Cosmos relevancy ended in 1982...and I think you're right. But all things equal I'm thinking it WAS easier to sell tickets to the Cosmos than it WILL BE for Red Bull II. Time will tell.
I think the Cosmos were a bigger draw here than up in New York, ironically. Didn't we sell out every home game against them?
Attendance at Al Lang for games against the Cosmos since Fall 2013: 08/10/2013.....7,032 05/17/2014.....4,855 08/16/2014.....4,273 09/05/2015.....5,630 07/23/2016.....6,301 So, no. With rare exceptions, the identity of the visiting team in and of itself is not a major driver of ticket sales. Day of the week, time of the season, promotions and marketing weight brought to bear on the game in question have far more power than the visiting team. These aren't those Cosmos. These aren't those Rowdies. This isn't 1978 anymore. All things are no longer equal.
Ottawa was a slightly better draw at Al Lang than the Cosmos: Opponent...................G....Total..Average Miami FC...................1....6,912..6,912 Jacksonville Armada........3...18,643..6,214 Puerto Rico FC.............1....5,873..5,873 Ottawa Fury FC.............4...23,301..5,825 Rayo OKC...................2...11,637..5,819 New York Cosmos............5...28,091..5,618 Indy Eleven................5...27,896..5,579 Fort Lauderdale Strikers..11...49,146..4,468 Carolina Railhawks........12...51,221..4,268 San Antonio Scorpions......6...24,560..4,093 Minnesota Stars/United FC.13...52,399..4,031 FC Edmonton...............13...51,813..3,986 Atlanta Silverbacks.......10...39,052..3,905 Montreal Impact............2....7,504..3,752 Puerto Rico Islanders......4...12,210..3,053 TOTAL.....................92..410,258..4,459
And weather, don't forget weather...especially in Tampa Bay in the summer (as a Meteorologist I HAVE TO say that)! I follow attendance fairly closely, it's one of the main revenue streams for a club at this level. I knew that the numbers for the Cosmos games were down from the first game, when they were promoting the heck out of it, but I didn't think it was quite that much. As an aside, while going through my late mother's things I found a picture of me at my sister's wedding...in 1978. I'm wearing a tan leisure suit (even buttoned down!) and matching earth shoes. I was 10 and thought I looked cool! I was wrong...
Bingo. Why the one concept (people won't pay to watch DIII soccer) doesn't immediately inform the idea that relegation can be devastating for a club financially (which after the massive outlays North American owners have put into DI teams would be even more crippling) is baffling.
To be fair, they didn't say they wouldn't pay to watch it, they said they wouldn't pay those prices (whatever those prices are) to watch it. Problem is, reducing ticket prices because of the perception of lesser quality kind of hampers your ability to generate revenue across the board.
Too true. Can't count the number of teams I've seen come crashing out of DI over in England and go down not just one level but two or three before they were able to stabilize (usually after a bankruptcy or two). Still remember seeing Portsmouth play America in San Diego a few weeks after they were relegated from the Premiership (still feel bad for the promoters of that game, it was billed as a FMF v Preimership rumble and it ended up being a Quarterfinal exit America v a completely devastated Championship Portsmouth). Kept tabs on them periodically after that as they went into freefall down to the lower half of League 2 before they finally stabilized. Bolton are another even more recent example of the same concept. That's not to say minor league sports are the most stable thing in the world either in North America. But for the better situated teams it definitely has an air of stability that appeals.
What was considered the lower league when the MLS started? The A-league very few players were ever brought up from there. Right now a lot of players are being called up by their countries. The USA and Costa Rica and a few others. Are any players from the Nasl being called in to replace them temporarily to a MLS team? I think it does not even happen on a Nasl team their B teams are merely their reserve teams. Very few minor league teams players in baseball are called to the major leagues.
1) Not "the MLS." 2) That's not actually true. In the first year (1996), yes. But when the USISL and APSL merged and forged an agreement with MLS, lots of players moved between the two divisions in the early years. You can't just "call in" an NASL player. They're totally separate organizations with, you know, contracts and stuff. In the MLS/USL agreement days, you could "call up" someone (or, as also happened, MLS teams loaned players to their affiliates on a short-term basis) temporarily, per the agreement. You have to actually be under an MLS contract now to play in an MLS game. And that would require acquiring said NASL player through one of the mechanisms available to an MLS team. (Like a transfer). Wait, what? Players with options remaining are called up from (and sent back down to) AAA all the time. In the seven-day period from July 25-30, 2016, 50 minor league players got called up to the major leagues. 07/31/16 San Diego Padres selected the contract of LF Jabari Blash from El Paso Chihuahuas. Kansas City Royals recalled Matt Strahm from Northwest Arkansas Naturals. Atlanta Braves recalled Daniel Castro from Gwinnett Braves. Pittsburgh Pirates recalled Max Moroff from Indianapolis Indians. Miami Marlins recalled Nefi Ogando from New Orleans Zephyrs. Chicago Cubs selected the contract of LHP Brian Matusz from Iowa Cubs. Arizona Diamondbacks recalled Evan Marshall from Reno Aces. 07/30/16 Miami Marlins recalled Brian Ellington from New Orleans Zephyrs. Arizona Diamondbacks selected the contract of Steve Hathaway from Reno Aces. Arizona Diamondbacks selected the contract of LHP Adam Loewen from Reno Aces. Washington Nationals recalled Reynaldo Lopez from Syracuse Chiefs. Oakland Athletics recalled Dillon Overton from Nashville Sounds. Seattle Mariners recalled Cody Martin from Tacoma Rainiers. 07/29/16 Minnesota Twins recalled SS Jorge Polanco from Rochester Red Wings. Seattle Mariners recalled Guillermo Heredia from Tacoma Rainiers. San Diego Padres recalled Leonel Campos from El Paso Chihuahuas. San Diego Padres recalled Jose Rondon from San Antonio Missions. Tampa Bay Rays recalled LF Nick Franklin from Durham Bulls. Atlanta Braves recalled Ryan Weber from Gwinnett Braves. Pittsburgh Pirates recalled Steven Brault from Indianapolis Indians. New York Mets recalled Brandon Nimmo from Las Vegas 51s. Washington Nationals recalled Pedro Severino from Syracuse Chiefs. Houston Astros recalled Tyler White from Fresno Grizzlies. 07/28/16 San Francisco Giants selected the contract of Matt Reynolds from Sacramento River Cats. Kansas City Royals recalled Brooks Pounders from Omaha Storm Chasers. Atlanta Braves recalled LHP Matt Marksberry from Gwinnett Braves. Atlanta Braves selected the contract of RHP Jose Ramirez from Gwinnett Braves. 07/27/16 Milwaukee Brewers recalled RHP Michael Blazek from Colorado Springs Sky Sox. San Diego Padres recalled Buddy Baumann from El Paso Chihuahuas. San Diego Padres recalled 3B Alexi Amarista from El Paso Chihuahuas. Chicago White Sox recalled 2B Carlos Sanchez from Charlotte Knights. Washington Nationals recalled Wilmer Difo from Harrisburg Senators. 07/26/16 Texas Rangers recalled Joey Gallo from Round Rock Express. Texas Rangers recalled Nick Martinez from Round Rock Express. Los Angeles Angels recalled Tyler Skaggs from Salt Lake Bees. Oakland Athletics recalled J.B. Wendelken from Nashville Sounds. New York Mets recalled Josh Smoker from Las Vegas 51s. Kansas City Royals recalled 2B Raul Mondesi from Omaha Storm Chasers. St. Louis Cardinals recalled Sam Tuivailala from Memphis Redbirds. St. Louis Cardinals recalled Dean Kiekhefer from Memphis Redbirds. 07/25/16 New York Yankees recalled Luis Severino from Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders. Colorado Rockies selected the contract of LF David Dahl from Albuquerque Isotopes. Milwaukee Brewers recalled Keon Broxton from Colorado Springs Sky Sox. San Diego Padres recalled Keith Hessler from El Paso Chihuahuas. Oakland Athletics recalled 2B Max Muncy from Nashville Sounds. Miami Marlins recalled RHP Jarred Cosart from New Orleans Zephyrs. Philadelphia Phillies recalled Taylor Featherston from Lehigh Valley IronPigs. St. Louis Cardinals selected the contract of RHP Jerome Williams from Memphis Redbirds. Arizona Diamondbacks selected the contract of RHP Braden Shipley from Reno Aces. Houston Astros selected the contract of 3B Alex Bregman from Fresno Grizzlies. As a percentage of minor league players, sure, but that's a ludicrous comparison. The occasional player will get called up from AA to MLB, but that's fairly rare. You don't call people up from A ball like Nuke LaLoosh. And the reason callups are different in baseball is because the player's service clock towards arbitration and free agency starts ticking the moment you call him up and you can only freely send him back and forth to and from the minors for three years. We don't have that procedure in soccer. (Besides there not being the same type of affiliation agreement that baseball has as part of its over-arching agreement with the National Association of Professional Baseball Leagues.)
Here is how I remember it in the first year of the MLS in 1996 the metrostars got players from every where. Club teams from the Super division that season ended just before the mls started we had Gio with us I paid him 600 a game to play for us, from the usisl and they had open tryouts. They got Gio Saverese from the Long Island rough riders he was MVP in the league that year. He got a two yr contract for 40 thousand. They got players from Long Island.they wanted the local club guys to go to their games. Tony Meola was also playing for the roughriders he was paid the most in that league 100 thousand. Front office people were from local clubs as well. But after they started the A league Joe Manfredi was a big advertiser for the original Cosmos. He was a life time Brooklyn Italian as I am. He started an A league team in States Island I scouted players for that team. Some players were given 2 game contracts with the metrostars none that I recal were ever kept. Most senior teams have to have a reserve team. They are used to preactice against and to rehabilitation of a first team player who is injured. It happens in baseball as well. A lot of mls players have been called up for their countries national teams. This would be a perfect time to give some Nasl players short term contracts for depth. Very rare to get a long term mls contract from that. But I suppose it could happen.
Here's the thing, though: I don't believe that's physically possible anymore. Or at least, not realistic. In the absence of an agreement with the NASL a la the MLS/USL agreement of the late 90s, you would have to actually transfer the player, and the NASL club can recognize an asset when they have it. Anyone MLS would want to "bring up" would surely be a contributor to his NASL team, and what NASL team will just let a contributor walk up to MLS, even for the short term, when "team control over your players" is touted by the NASL as a differentiator? Want to purchase that NASL player? Sure. I imagine his price just went up. And MLS has not made a habit of purchasing second division players, I do not believe. (Was Mac Kandji the last one?) There is no mechanism to do this. And MLS rosters are deeper than they were back then. They would be far more likely to recall someone they had loaned to their USL affiliate (or even acquire - subject to the terms of the current MLS/USL agreement, which none of us have seen - someone else from that club) than to go get someone from the NASL.
I'm only aware of one instance of an MLS team "calling up" and NASL player, and as you said it was in the form of a transfer. Indy Eleven transfered their goalie to Montreal Impact for a few CCL games. He missed a single match with Indy, then signed a new deal with Indy once he was done with Montreal.
That's true, good memory. See, they had to do a workaround. With Evan Bush suspended, their backup GK cup-tied to Kansas City and their third-choice keeper injured, they needed someone who could play. So they paid a transfer fee, got Nicht (who had to know it was a one-off), then released him and he re-signed with Indy. Worked for everybody. It is not simple to do this. There are no "short term call-ups from the NASL."
Others have covered the technical aspects of "call ups" from lower leagues. I'll point out that it is not really as big an issue as in the past. This weekend MLS players are getting called up for the qualifiers but there are only 3 MLS league games during this break. These are the six teams playing this weekend along with their players that have been called up: New England: none Minnesota: Francisco Calvo for Costa Rica, Kevin Molino for T&T, Rasmus Schuller for Finland, Johan Venegas for Costa Rica NY Red Bulls: Michael Murillo for Panama Salt Lake: Albert Rusnak for Slovakia, Nick Rimando for USA Columbus: Jukka Raitala for Finland Portland: David Guzman for Costa Rica, Darlington Nagbe for USA Only Minnesota is losing more than 2 players. It doesn't seem likely that NASL players would be replacing these guys for a game. The other World Cup qualifier breaks this year are like this with very few MLS games. The Gold Cup might pinch rosters a bit more but we'll have to wait and see how many guys really go. And MLS is shutting down during the group stage so the absences will be limited.
I attended the first RGV game (I'm a Winter Texan living in Mission and Lees Summit) and the New Stadium is very nice. Very very nice Scoreboard for a minor league sport (It shows the price of these monster screens must really have come down in the last 10 years..) But, they were charging MLS prices for seats so the attendance was reported at 6000, when it was generous to say 3000 was at the game... I see the next game they were offering 4 tickets for 40.00, much, much better. And they have a very good team. The game was played at the end of March the Temperature was 90 but the wind always blows about 25 mph from the Southwest most days, very very windy in the Valley. USL doing much better at a nicer stadium in San Antonio and I don't understand why a USL team couldn't do very very well in Austin TX. That city is huge too. I have a 30 minute drive to the Edinburg Stadium from the upper Valley in Mission TX. I'd like to see Swope Park move out of the practice facility into another location, Wichita perhaps, Springfield, and grow their own identity. I don't think Swope Park will ever go over and they won't draw more than 1500 at that practice site, after seeing a minor league game in RGV. Look how the league draws at other locations that aren't practice locations for the main team. I see Portland is thinking of moving it's team to Boise and starting up a third team for the USL - 3 league in Portland.
But that's not the point of the exercise. These teams do not exist to "go over" (whatever that looks like). They are to develop players, not to "grow their own identity." Moving them hundreds of miles away entails removing them from the infrastructure that makes their very existence more reasonable, given we still don't know how efficient a model of player development the MLS2 teams are. How "the league" draws, or how MLS2 teams that have their own apartments and aren't still living in (or near) their parents' houses? What independent teams draw is not a great comparison, as they're in business to be in business and devote resources to that. Many of them have also been around for years (Rochester for 20, and they supposedly lost $1.7M last year.) But let's look at what MLS2 teams that have more or less their own identities actually drew last year: Bethlehem - 2,573 Who else? RGV? 1,994. (They're a hybrid, obviously.) What are they doing this year? RGV is at 5,756 (generous, by your own admission) and Bethlehem 3,054, both through just two home games. But after the dust settles and RBNYII and TFCII and Vancouver 2 are at the bottom of the attendance figures, so what? Again, these teams don't exist to make anyone feel better about how the league "looks" or to give Boise a team. They exist to develop players. Some MLS clubs take a slightly different approach to how they organize and staff those developmental teams, but that's the general thrust. There will always be different approaches to this. This entire exercise is far too young to draw any grand conclusions from it.
Yeah, but they HAVE TO move the "reserve teams" to the third division because I'm insecure about supporting North American soccer, and who can take a "farm league" seriously, and "baseballifaction!", and I want to see soccer develop "organically", and... and... and... and...
Not "the MLS." You're right, but...in a world of "the NFL" and "the NBA" and "the NHL", insisting it's merely "MLS" and not "the MLS" is probably always going to be a losing battle. (Is it too late to change it to "the Papa John's Major Soccer League, sponsored by Herbalife"?)
In 2015, Bryan Sylvestre was loaned to the Philadelphia Union from the Carolina Railhawks. In a weird bit, in the week he was the reigning MLS Player of the Week, he was recalled from the loan to play in a USOC game against Charlotte two years ago (the day after the FIFA offices were raided and the Railhawks owner was arrested). Carolina lost the game, then Sylvestre was returned to Philly. For anyone wondering why he wasn't in goal in the 2015 USOC Final against Kansas City, it was because he was cup-tied to the Railhawks. He's been the Railhawks/NCFC starter for the last two seasons.
Exactly. While they were still playing at the expensive to rent Citrus Bowl, OCFC had their first year Orlando City B team play on the coast (a good drive) in Melbourne, Florida. Once they opened the new stadium, OCB moved back to Orlando. The point isn't to make OCB a successful spectator supported team, but to develop and maintain assets for Orlando City FC.
Even if he wasn't cup tied he wouldn't have played in that game as John McCarthy had been the Union's USOC starter and Andre Blake had finally been given the Number 1 Keeper spot. I believe the loan deal was ended/expired prior to that game as well.