Honest question for the board: How bad does this season have to get in order for you to think Petke should be fired?
The fair side of me thinks he should get the transfer window before we judge him, but the critical side of me thinks he has no idea what he is doing. We've gone 4-7-0 (not counting Minnesota game) since he came on, scored 12 goals, and given up 27 goals. You can claim he's not working with the best pieces, we've had tons of injuries, yada, yada, yada. But he doesn't seem to be adjusting during the games, or after the games, other than being more aggressive. I'm hoping we turn things around, but the current trend isn't looking so good.
Joke on here a lot, but this is a serious question. Does the league have a "You suck so bad you're embarrassing the league" TAM money that may be available to RSL in the summer transfer window?
After seeing 15to32's post in the stats thread I see the differences/changes that Petke's been able to institute so far, but those changes are showing up in the results column. I'm hoping he can turn things around.
Cassar's team was responsible for almost 0 offensive output. Cassar's record for this season was not worth repeating or admiring. Maybe Cassar's cheerleaderism kept people like Maund, Schuler, and Wingert semi stable... Somewhat. But I seem to recall us all grousing about how a team that could actually finish chances would be 4-5 goals up on us. I would say that teams finally started getting in season form and blasted the shit out of us. It wasnt FC Dallas tier, but yeah.
I'm going to say exactly what I said for Cassar: You don't hire a guy and fire him without giving a reasonable chance. Also, you should give him a substantially MLS-level roster talent to work with. They didn't do that with Cassar, yet I think everyone saw enough to make fair judgement. I'm not sold on Petke as a HC; however, he deserves at least through the 2018 season.
Honestly though, what all can he do? We have pieces that should be performing better, but haven't in awhile, and a good chunk of the roster is barely backup quality and they're expected to start, or come off the bench and make an impact. We honestly probably need to clear out half the roster and replace with better people. I don't know that I'd fire him this offseason, but I do think he at least needs the winter window to see what he can do. I don't expect much to happen this summer, but we'll have to really clean house in the offseason. Summer should hopefully see some pieces move, with winter moving the rest.
Cassar didn't have an MLS-level team? He inherited a team that was a goalpost away from winning MLS Cup. I'd say it's unfair to say he didn't have an MLS-level team.
He did, but after that year a lot of the team should've been gutted for younger players in their prime, similar to Kreis in 07/08. Instead, he tried to keep riding that wave of aging players, and when he finally made some moves, he brought in too many backup level players.
Show me consecutive home field losses and I’ll consider it. Teams in this league can be forgiven for road ineptitude, but no team has license to do worse than draw at home for long.
to clarify, Cassar didn't "bring players in" that's on Waibel. Cassar is certainly part of that, but the segregation of duties clearly states that Waibel is the person to bring talent in I don't mean to blast you DrownedElf, but this line of thinking drives me ********ing nuts lately. The blame game for Cassar has put him in positions/roles that he was actually very little part of - if at all. Cassar was at fault for not fielding a team (not selecting the team, remember that) that didn't perform to it's abilities. He was at fault for a lack of player rotation. He was at fault for tactics that were... well not actual tactics. This is all stuff he can and should be blamed for. Blaming him for not bringing in new players, or spending money on players that didn't deserve it, or for not having enough players in their prime years WAS NOT HIS FAULT.
End of 2018. Seriously, if Petke is fired before the end of 2018 RSL will enter a noise dive it may not recover from. If this organization gets a reputation for cycling through coaches with short leashes and not giving them more than 1-2 years to establish their philosophy then why would anyone want to coach or play here? Petke needs at least 1 full offseason if not 2, he needs multiple transfer windows. This team is shit right now because it was built to be shit, by Waibel, by Cassar, by DLH. That's not going to change in a dozen games over a couple months. Do people not remember how awful we continued to be under Kreis through the rest of 2007? We had 13 losses that year AFTER Kreis took over. If we can put together a competitive season in 2018, maybe sneak into the playoffs, I'll be satisfied. The rest of this season needs to be spent jettisoning a good half of this current roster and bringing in guys Petke wants, that's it. We then spend next offseason working on the core philosophy and building the chemistry needing while acquiring a few more pieces and then spend 2018 becoming a competitive team again. If anyone has any thoughts of 2017 being anything more than a time to completely rework this team then they are going to be in for a huge disappointment. I would hope DLH understands this as well, but I may be mistaken in that regard.
so we could lose every single game the rest of the season and you'd still be ok with Petke being head coach in 2018? I'm with you in that we need to give him time. However, current trends are not something we can just ignore. Giving up 15 ********ing goals is inexcusable. Petke and Waibel are pointing fingers at the players, which is understandable. However, I just can't see how that (a) wins the locker room and (b) is going to encourage better performances. I'm being serious with this question but not advocating he should be fired. I just want to know how long the leash is with fans for the guy.
Things that should happen before Petke gets fired: A huge amount of roster turnover occurs Waibel is fired Petke gets a full roster to choose from of guys he wants to be on the roster Petke gets an offseason Anything that happens between now and those things happening is irrelevant to me. I understand the team is playing beyond poorly, not even at a competitive USL level, but the SAME EXACT THING happened in 2007 when Kreis took over. A lot of people wanted Kreis fired before the end of 2007, hell even I was very skeptical, that team continued to be absolutely AWFUL through the end of that year and Kreis looked like he was in way over his head (especially with the stupid fines and suspensions). At least Petke has a known quantity to him thanks to his time at NYRB. Do you think if we had fired Kreis before the end of 2007 or even before the end of 2008 we would have come close to winning an MLS Cup and being one of the best teams for more than half a decade? Not a chance. If this team wants any chance of being competitive 2, 3, 4 years from now firing Petke before the end of 2018 would crush those chances. If we give up a billion goals from now until October 2017 and Waibel can't go out and find a VERY high quality CB to sign as well as other defensive signings, Waibel is the first one gone at the end of this season. I also think Tyrone Marshal should also be gone, our defense has been lousy ever since he was hired. This defense, from a personnel perspective, is not just bad, it's not MLS level. I wouldn't put this defense on a USL squad, I legitimately think that outside Glad and Beltran there is not a single defensive player on this roster who would (or should) come even remotely close to see more than marginal minutes for a MLS team. There is no talent there and we've been saying that for years, thus it is not surprising that we are giving up goals at a historic rate. IMO if anyone thinks that the defensive guys on this roster, outside Glad and Beltran, are MLS quality (besides being deep bench players) then they have no ********ing clue what they are talking about.
Cassar seemed to actually believe we have MLS championship quality on our roster. I think he was on board with the roster and signings.
But wasn't Kreis praised for who he got rid of and brought in while building his squad? I know that ultimately it's Weibel who signs players, but I would certainly hope the coach helps pick players and isn't just saying they need a forward and letting Weibel do all the rest. I guess I view it as one of those things we'll probably never know who had more say in the relationship. No matter what though, I think both people get blame either way. Although I can agree that more blame should lie with Weibel and the scouts, because even if Cassar wanted these average/poor players, they should've been denied due to proper scouting to know they aren't good enough.
I think he was just being publicly supportive of and loyal to his bosses. I honestly doubt he truly believed it.
It's about the philosophy of the leadership. I have the impression that Dave didn't have the hard core top-down philosophy that DLH has. They actually sent JK to South America to personally evaluate talent. He met Morales and the other two Argentinians face to face and passionately sold them on a future with an up and coming organization. While I'm sure that Cassar had and Petke has a role in player selection, its nothing like the freedom that JK was given.
yes, and that probably irritated Garth a bit. Was JK involved? Sure. But Lagerway is the guy who had to actually formulate contracts and negotiate to afford the players. That part of it is so underappreciated, I think. Especially when you look at our current roster and go "wait, that guy makes HOW MUCH?!"
"...When you wish upon a star Makes no difference who you are Anything your heart desires will come to you..." I wish that Bill Manning, Garth Lagerwey and Jason Kreis would come back to RSL (as a three-headed monster).
At first, though, Kreis was making roster decisions on his own. He became coach in May 2007 and brought in the Argentine players (Morales, Espindola, and Mantilla) in August. Lagerwey wasn't hired until September. At least on this board, I seem to remember Lagerwey getting the credit for most of the players who came in after that, like Olave and Borchers. But any confusion about who was bringing them in was understandable, especially given the public presentation of the collaborative nature of their working relationship.