I didn't write them off. I'm saying their team is a joke right now and their franchise won't matter a decade from now because of simple concepts like the ones I mentioned.
There was no evidence that Atlanta would have a good fan base before they were announced as en expansion side.Tons of people completely wrote them off the moment the franchise was announced. Much the same way Miami is written off. But you probably loved Minnesota. And you love Sacramento. You love Cincinnati.
Miami may never get a team and everything I've said still stands. You've failed miserably at stating otherwise. And lied about Miami sports attendance while doing it.
Minnesota is a great market for MLS 1.0 or in other words, the model that almost killed the league. Minnesota is homogenous, cold and boring. They will be another Columbus (if they're lucky).
You keep repeating this silly line. Is Miami not a promising city working to bring MLS to their city? It's like a disease that you have where you want to admit small white bread towns to the league for no good reason. It's astounding.
You're an idiot because you're a fanboy with no concept of the business of soccer. And you repeatedly lied about Miami sports attendance and then ran away for a few days to avoid answering for it.
This is comical coming from the guy who lied about Miami sports attendance and was refuted by my facts. Then he ran away and hid for a few days. Everything I've said stands. You've had nothing to say otherwise. Just nonsense about crappy medium size towns that add no juice to the league. Thanks God Garber and his people know what they're doing (for the most part).
Wow, this discussion has taken a turn. Getting back on track… I think we’ve got some mixed signals here. I seems Drew1830 is defending Miami as a market in response to lots of criticism of Beckham and his ownership group. There are some elements here that need to be split and discussed separately. The South Florida Market – There is really no debate here that Miami has it all in the realm of surface metrics. It’s a huge market with loads of commerce, businesses, and people. I also agree with Drew that the Fusion (and Mutiny) contraction is largely misunderstood and unfairly placed at the feet of the respective markets. That’s a conversation not worth getting into the weeds here, but at the time some teams needed to go and those two were convenient because of league control. Where I start to disagree with Drew is how South Florida will support an MLS side specifically over the long haul. Yes, Miami does turn out for the “big events”. Big events like the Heat championship run or competitive Dolphins teams. How many “big events” would an expansion MLS team provide the market? This summer Madrid will play Barca at the Hard Rock Stadium. It will be a major deal. People will be excited. But we’re talking about the two most popular clubs in the world. If you want to use the Hurricanes as an example, El Clasico would be like the FSU game (which is the biggest home game every two years) and the MLS schedule would be like the rest of their ACC schedule. I’m also not here to debate the ins and outs of the Marlins (although if you’re interested I’d be happy to engage in that conversation in an appropriate forum). But my point about the Marlins was not intended to accuse the market of falling short. I intended to point out the clear fact that MLB as a league is stronger than it has ever been, and it is doing so with very little input from the Marlins and their fans. It is possible to run a successful league without significant input from Miami. I lean on the Marlins and their issues as my support for that statement. I am not saying that because the Marlins lack support therefore MLS Miami will also lack support. Not what I’m saying. Most of what I’ve said here has to do with the numbers at the gate. This is largely irrelevant. The main thing is the sponsorship money available to a team down here and that is there. There are millions of eyeballs for television too. That is undeniable. In spite of all the criticism the Marlins get in terms of their gate, they do well with their TV ratings. That is important for MLS. Beckham – I don’t want to rehash all the statements made in this thread. I can understand taking up for you city and explaining why it is great for others to see your point of view. I don’t understand taking up for Beckham. He’s not representative of Miami. He had a sweatheart clause and he chose Miami as a place to exercise it. If there was a way to extinguish this deal and have a different ownership group apply for a Miami team I would take it in a heartbeat, because he does not represent our last chance. MLS rightfully wants the market, and we’ve seen other rich guys do well with sports franchises down here (Joe Robbie, Wayne Huizinga, and Micky Arison). I’d take a Stephen Ross owned team operating in Miami Gardens over whatever Beckham is trying to assemble in Overtown. Hard Rock stadium is nice, it is central, access is really easy, and there is tons of room to tailgate. Weekend games would be tons of fun. You could get there early, set up and have a party all day. I know Beckham doesn’t want that but for a south florida sports fan it would be really nice. Perhaps there is a feasibility issue there with Dolphins and Canes games happening in the fall.
The problem, Drew, is that you're spinning facts into your mental masterbation fantasy. I'll stick to reality. Enjoy your fairy tales and unicorns. Don't bother replying, I'm out
This argument has no merit. The Kansas City Wizards were the worst franchise in MLS for almost a decade. The soccer team in Kansas City, not the baseball team, was a horrendous failure. The Fusion won the Supporter's Shield and averaged more fans in their last year than Kansas City but the Fusion were contracted and Kansas City got 10 more years to fail miserably before they turned it around. The Marlins fans have been jerked around so many times by so many awful ownership groups that the relationship is toxic. The demographics, location and economics are completely different for this Miami expansion bid.
You could have just stopped at facts. I know that everything I've posted is factual. You're just incapable, as you've shown again, of responding.
You say my argument (my argument by the way was about the baseball league and the city of Miami) has no merit in your first line and then follow up with a paragraph about the Fusion which I completely agree with and alluded to in my original post. I don't understand why you want to fight me about the Fusion or MLB the league. If you want to spar over the Marlins I'm ready when you are.
Your MLB analogy is just stupid. I'm giving you a soccer team failing, not a baseball team, and showing how their decade of miserable failure meant nothing about the city as a potential soccer market. So why would a completely different sport with completely different metrics have anything to do with Miami as a soccer market? MLB has been around 125+ years. It could survive without the Marlins (obviously). MLS could survive without Miami (obviously). We're talking about best options for MLS, not existential ones.
There was plenty of evidence Atlanta was going to have a good fan base. They had a very large fan club before the team was officially announced. There were hundreds if not thousands present at the announcement event. They had a large grass roots movement. Miami has none of that. Provide us with proof of a large fan club or grass roots movement. Again I have never mentioned Sacramento or Cincinnati a single time. A fact that I have pointed out 3 times now yet you continue. I presented fact. A direct quote discussing deadline. Now it is up to you to provide an example of this not being true with a quote or a line out of the contract. Provide a valid counter or SHUT UP.
I just took your advise since I am apparently not strong enough to ignore on my own In all my years on BS this is my first ignore
You literally just agreed with everything I posted and did so with a tone that would suggest I was taking the opposite position. I also never suggested Miami's baseball performance was a predictor for their potential soccer performance. My baseball discussion wasn't an analogy at all. It was a statement about the overall league's health which is great, in contrast with their Miami franchise. Let’s talk about the Marlins. Bad things that have happened to Marlins fans over the past 24 years: The original financial structure set up by Wayne Huizinga between the Dolphins, the stadium, and the Marlins which was only beneficial provided the owner owned all three entities. The events during the winter of 1997 after the World Series. Everything about John Henry’s ownership Everything about the financing of the new stadium Jeff Loria and his stupid face The dinosaurs in their baseball operations who until last year were operating the franchise using archaic forms of analysis The decision to sign certain free agents heading into 2012 to open the new park. All of these signings were ill advised, and they even attempted to compound the problem with an Albert Pujols contract which would be a complete albatross had he signed it. Thing that many people think happened but actually didn’t A post 2003 World Series fire sale. Good thing that happened which is stupidly labeled as a bad thing that happened Dumping all the terrible players they signed in 2012 to large contracts prior to opening Marlins Park. I’m sure you’ll draw your own conclusions from whatever you already think about the Marlins. I don’t begrudge Miami for the support shown to the Marlins. The Marlins have gotten what they’ve deserved. That list of “bad things” is very awful. Of the three lists I’ve shown that bad one should be weighted more heavily. I have a problem though with people that say they like baseball but won’t attend Marlins games because they’ve had three fire sales. It shows a complete lack of understanding of player attrition in modern baseball and the economics and value associated with player personnel. Far too many people think spending equates to winning. Far too many people can’t identify when it is time to cut ties with a player. Far too many people take 1997 wounds and recycle them over different events from the next decade. Josh Johnson is a great example of the Marlins doing the opposite of what most people would have said they should do, when the outcome shows they did the right thing. The baseball operations were pretty good compared to their counter parts league wide during the 00s. But the end of the Beinfest era and the Michael Hill era has seen the Marlins passed by nearly every organization aside from the Diamondbacks. But, if you won’t go because you hate every owner they’ve ever had then I completely agree.
Then why was there almost universal pessimism about their bid? Because most of what you just said is just revisionism. And what's considered a large fan club? Miami's Southern Legion has 15,000 followers on Facebook without an actual team announcement. They've been politicking since the Fusion folded. In fact the group never disbanded after being a Fusion supporters group. They just rebranded and kept at it. You've clearly shown that you've paid no attention to anything going on in Miami. You seem to think that it's better to just make it up as you go.