Methodology for Classifying World Class Players

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Ariaga II, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    2000-2005: Defensive/Central Midfielders

    Deco
    Michael Ballack
    Frank Lampard
    David Beckham
    Patrick Vieira
    Steven Gerrard
    Xavi
    Andrea Pirlo
    Ruben Baraja
    Clarence Seedorf
    Paul Scholes
    Emerson
    Claude Makelele
    Mark Van Bommel
    Roy Keane
    Juan Sebastian Veron
    Damiano Tommasi
    Edgar Davids
    Guti
    Valeri Karpin
    Xabi Alonso
    Phillip Cocu
    Costinha
    Torsten Frings
    Luigi Di Biagio
    Gennaro Gattuso
    David Albelda
    Owen Hargreaves
    Gilberto Silva
    Alessio Tacchinardi
    Ze Roberto
    Dejan Stankovic

    (Essien, Maniche, Soldo, Dyer)

    - Look at all this room here. Friggin' Costinha and everything. There's gotta be some players outside the ESM-list I've overlooked.
     
  2. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    2000-2005: Attacking Midfielders/Wingers

    Ronaldinho
    Zinedine Zidane
    Pavel Nedved
    Kaka
    Ludovic Giuly
    Luis Figo
    Robert Pires
    Arjen Robben
    Pablo Aimar
    Vicente
    Rui Costa
    Fredrik Ljungberg
    Mehmet Scholl
    Juninho Pernambucano
    Rivaldo
    Joe Cole
    Juan Carlos Valeron
    Jerome Rothen
    Ryan Giggs
    Mauro Camoranesi
    Juan Roman Riquelme
    Cristiano Ronaldo
    Johan Micoud
    Jose Antonio Reyes
    Luis Enrique
    Sylvain Wiltord
    Alvaro Recoba
    Bernd Schneider
    Rafael Van Der Vaart
    Stefano Fiore
    Tomas Rosicky
    Damien Duff

    (Hleb)

    - Both the AMs and FWs section have a bunch of players who had an incomplete era, and could make room if necessary. We have guys like Cristiano Ronaldo and Robben, who may not have the required 3 seasons at top level during this time. No viable challengers, though.

    - Rivaldo was mostly past it during this time, but his high-profile WC earns him a spot.
     
  3. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    2000-2005: Forwards

    Thierry Henry
    Andriy Shevchenko
    Ronaldo
    Roy Makaay
    Ruud Van Nistelrooy
    Francesco Totti
    Samuel Eto'o
    Christian Vieri
    Hernan Crespo
    Raul
    Michael Owen
    Adriano
    Filippo Inzaghi
    Alessandro Del Piero
    Mateja Kezman
    Vincenzo Montella
    Fernando Morientes
    Pierre Van Hooijdonk
    Zlatan Ibrahimovic
    David Trezeguet
    Henrik Larsson
    Javier Saviola
    Alan Shearer
    Alberto Gilardino
    Pauleta
    Giovane Elber
    Claudio Lopez
    Antonio Cassano
    Patrick Kluivert
    Jan Koller
    Dennis Bergkamp
    Claudio Pizarro

    (Nihat, Ailton, Torres)

    - Kezman is an interesting choice, because he ended up being such a huge flop. Before that, he was seen as a top top guy, so deserves to be included.
     
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  4. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Why do I not remember Martin Keown being that good at all between 2000-2005?
     
  5. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    U wot, mate!??

    [​IMG]

    I must admit he wouldn't have been my personal pick, either. I'm letting the ESM-votes influence me too much.

    All his ESM-votes are from the 00-01 season, so it's probably enough if he's part of 95-00.
     
  6. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000

    We've reached the nineties, and my estimation of things getting more crowded smacks me right in the face! Seriously, things are so crowded I'm totally screwed! :D I've still included some of the possibles in brackets, but there were seriously many others who wouldn't look out of place in this list, and I feel would've made it in later eras. Good era or nostalgia? You tell me.

    This is also the first era where I'll be including players who played (almost) exclusively in South America, which makes things even more complicated. Chilavert, Gallardo, Romario and Edmundo are all included.

    Goalkeepers:

    Oliver Kahn
    Angelo Peruzzi
    Edwin Van Der Sar
    Peter Schmeichel
    Vitor Baia
    Gianluca Pagliuca
    Gianluigi Buffon
    Santiago Canizares
    Bodo Illgner
    Stefan Klos
    Francesco Toldo
    Fabien Barthez
    Andreas Köpke
    David Seaman
    Ed De Goey
    Jose Luis Chilavert

    (Hesp, Lehmann, Roa, Lama)

    -ESM seems to be quite a bit club-oriented, which is understandable. It also seems somewhat big club -biased, meaning players who played for a club that was winning (especially in euro-competitions) were likely to score more votes. I wouldn't have picked Klos or Hesp as my own choices for this era. Klos is highly-rated, though, so I've kept him in. Hesp seems more like a beneficiary of Van Gaal's Dutch fetish and big club bias, though, so I've swapped him over with De Goey, who deserves a place, IMO.

    -Lama probably deserves a place somewhere. In this era, he had some situations where he was dropped as #1, though, so he drops from my list, too. Hoping I'll have room for him in 90-95.

    -Roa is an interesting case. Just when it seemed like he was about to develop into a top class goalie, he went cuckoo and joined a cult or something. With things being so crowded, it's an easy choice to drop him.

    -I gave Lehmann some rope for 2005-2010, so now he returns the favor and drops out voluntarily from this era.
     
  7. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000: Fullbacks

    RB:
    Lilian Thuram
    Gary Neville
    Ciro Ferrara
    Moreno Torricelli
    Jocelyn Angloma
    Christian Panucci
    Michael Reiziger
    Javier Zanetti
    Marcus Babbel
    Cafu
    Albert Ferrer
    Mazinho
    Thomas Helveg
    Dan Petrescu
    Stefan Reuter
    Angelo Di Livio

    (Bergomi, Dixon, Salgado)

    LB:
    Roberto Carlos
    Paolo Maldini
    Sinisa Mihajlovic
    Frank De Boer
    Bixente Lizarazu
    Sergi Barjuan
    Christian Ziege
    Jörg Heinrich
    Antonio Benarrivo
    Leonardo
    Vincent Candela
    Gianluca Pessotto
    Denis Irwin
    Celestine Babayaro
    Robert Jarni
    Graeme Le Saux

    (P. Neville, Georgatos, Pancaro, Zenden)

    -Left-back seems to be the one area where there's quite a bit of space. It's a nice dumping ground for a bunch of players. :D

    -Bergomi was experiencing his Indian summer during this time. He hadn't been an international for almost a decade, though, so he'll make room for others. I presume he'll be well-represented in other eras.
     
  8. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000: Central Defenders

    Fernando Hierro
    Laurent Blanc
    Jaap Stam
    Lothar Matthaus
    Alessandro Nesta
    Frank Leboeuf
    Danny Blind
    Paolo Montero
    Tony Adams
    Thomas Helmer
    Jurgen Kohler
    Philippe Albert
    Gheorghe Popescu
    Abelardo Fernandez
    Fabio Cannavaro
    Marcel Desailly
    Olaf Thon
    Gary Pallister
    Fernando Couto
    Bruno N'Gotty
    Viktor Onopko
    Taribo West
    Sol Campbell
    Martin Keown
    Jens Nowotny
    Mark Iuliano
    Patrik Andersson
    Alessandro Costacurta
    Miroslav Djukic
    Christian Wörns
    Sammy Kuffour
    Miguel Angel Nadal
    Aldair

    (Alkorta, Ayala, Gamarra, Linke, Naybet, Nikiforov, Sammer, Sensini, Southgate)

    -Look at all those reserves. So surprised a guy like Ayala got zero ESM-votes in this era.

    -Pata Andersson's best period was the early 00s, but injuries destroyed him before he could get the required three seasons, so I've moved him over here.

    -Gamarra is supposed to be a titan-class defender according to the South Americans, but didn't do much in Europe. Should I squeeze him in?

    -Sammer is an intriguing case. This was surely his best era, but he only had two seasons before injuries ended him. Maybe the only case of a Ballon winner not making it for the era he won the Ballon? This omission may also mean he'll never be included on my lists as a defender, the position he's mostly known for.
     
  9. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000: Defensive/Central Midfielders

    David Beckham
    Stefan Effenberg
    Roy Keane
    Lothar Matthaus
    Edgar Davids
    Juan Sebastian Veron
    Clarence Seedorf
    Josep Guardiola
    Diego Simeone
    Patrick Vieira
    Krasimir Balakov
    Didier Deschamps
    Fernando Redondo
    Paulo Sousa
    Jens Jeremies
    Emerson
    Phillip Cocu
    Paul Scholes
    Matias Almeyda
    Dietmar Hamann
    Vladimir Jugovic
    Valeri Karpin
    Ciriaco Sforza
    Zvonimir Boban
    Paul Ince
    Roberto Di Matteo
    Sunday Oliseh
    Emmanuel Petit
    Demetrio Albertini
    Christian Karembeu
    Mauro Silva
    Dino Baggio

    (De La Pena, Di Biagio, Donato, Lamouchi, Makelele, Jonk)
     
  10. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000: Attacking Midfielders/Wingers

    Luis Figo
    Zinedine Zidane
    Alessandro Del Piero
    Luis Enrique
    Youri Djorkaeff
    Ryan Giggs
    Andreas Möller
    Jari Litmanen
    Pavel Nedved
    Rui Costa
    Mario Basler
    Marc Overmars
    Gianfranco Zola
    David Ginola
    Rai
    Mehmet Scholl
    Steve McManaman
    Ronald De Boer
    Aleksandr Mostovoi
    Roberto Mancini
    Robert Pires
    Sergio Conceicao
    Roberto Baggio
    Marcelo Gallardo
    Thomas Hässler
    Patrik Berger
    Finidi George
    Juninho Paulista
    Gaizka Mendieta
    Juninho Paulista
    Julen Guerrero
    Ariel Ortega

    (Gascoigne, Giovanni, Hagi, Pantic, Poyet, Savio)

    -Jari is another interesting player. His biggest moment came in the 1990-1995 era, but he doesn't really have the necessary 3 seasons to qualify. At least he's included here.

    -Case Pantic: Really good for a couple of seasons, but little impact at international level. Decided to drop him.

    -Ortega... mostly a disappointment in Europe. His international profile was so huge, though, I think he needs to be included somewhere.
     
  11. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1995-2000: Forwards

    Raul
    Rivaldo
    Ronaldo
    Gabriel Batistuta
    Predrag Mijatovic
    Christian Vieri
    Andriy Shevchenko
    George Weah
    Oliver Bierhoff
    Mario Jardel
    Michael Owen
    Davor Suker
    Patrick Kluivert
    Dwight Yorke
    Dennis Bergkamp
    Alen Boksic
    Thierry Henry
    Claudio Lopez
    Robbie Fowler
    Filippo Inzaghi
    Jurgen Klinsmann
    Giovane Elber
    Francesco Totti
    Alfonso Perez
    Luc Nilis
    Hernan Crespo
    Alan Shearer
    Andy Cole
    Fabrizio Ravanelli
    Marcelo Salas
    Romario
    Edmundo

    (Sonny Anderson, Anelka, Jancker, Morientes, Signori, Simone, Trezeguet etc etc)

    -Look at all the devastation here and in the AMF-section. I feel like an executioner. Luckily all the really big omitted names are included elsewhere.

    -Romario could be seen as being past it. He half-assed it in Valencia, but was pretty important for the NT. He would have been included in 1998, but had to drop out due to being injured/douchebag. He's a huge name, but shall I keep him in?
     
  12. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    I've added Reiziger, Hamann, Overmars and Hasselbaink as possibles for 2000-2005.

    The future of this project:

    I'll be doing 1990-1995 soon. This is the first era where I won't be helped by ESM, but maybe that'll just work to my advantage. :D

    After that, there will be a break to gather more information. I'll actually jump back to the early 60s and go through the World Soccer issues from that era, then move forward chronologically until 1990.
     
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  13. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1990-1995

    OK, so this is the first list I'm going to have to take complete responsibility for. :D Compiling this list confirmed my suspicions about WS being ridiculously oriented towards attacking players. Even many of the best defensive players barely warranted a mention! Somebody like Kohler was basically only mentioned in team lists and such, and then suddenly there's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it mention that he's maybe the best in the world in his position, and I'm like "when did this happen, magazine?" Likewise with keepers, Baia apparently doesn't warrant a mention at all, and then he's ESMs keeper of the season. OK.

    Taking all this into account, the defensive lists (especially FBs, the unsung heroes) are more unreliable, and I've had to go more with online reputations and just picking guys who received several caps for major teams.

    I might have missed some even really obvious player. In general, players who weren't capped much or represented some obscure NT are more likely to escape my notice.

    Goalkeepers:

    Vitor Baia
    Francisco Buyo
    Bodo Illgner
    Andreas Köpke
    Bernard Lama
    Bruno Martini
    Gianluca Pagliuca
    Michel Preud'homme
    Thomas Ravelli
    Peter Schmeichel
    Neville Southall
    Uli Stein
    Claudio Taffarel
    Hans Van Breukelen
    Walter Zenga
    Andoni Zubizarreta

    (Bell, Bonner, De Goey, Immel, Seaman)

    -Immel is first reserve. Martini received some Ballon-votes, but would probably be the one I'm least sure about.

    -Goycoechea and Higuita are notable keepers who didn't make the cut. Goyco, according to Glanville a "scarecrow of a keeper who could only save penalties", is really one of those players whose reputation is based almost entirely on a WC. Higuita seems more known for his gimmick rather than his actual ability as one of the world's top goalies. He also spent this era flopping in Europe or being in jail.
     
  14. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1990-1995: Full-Backs

    I can't for the life of me come up with 32 FBs that deserve to be included. This being the era of 3-5-2 probably has much to do with it. I feel even the reserve CBs would deserve a mention over some of these guys. If you can spot a guy in one of the other sections that could make a makeshift fullback/wingback, let me know.

    RBs:

    Jocelyn Angloma
    Giuseppe Bergomi
    Thomas Berthold
    Cafu
    Lee Dixon
    Ciro Ferrara
    Albert Ferrer
    Georges Grun
    Jose Herrera
    Rob Jones
    Jorginho
    Vasili Kulkov
    Mazinho
    Dan Petrescu
    Stefan Reuter
    Mauro Tassotti

    (Abelardo, Roland Nilsson, Paul Parker, Joao Pinto)

    LBs:
    Antonio Benarrivo
    Branco
    Andreas Brehme
    Frank De Boer
    Tony Dorigo
    Denis Irwin
    Robert Jarni
    Leonardo
    Bixente Lizarazu
    Paolo Maldini
    Sinisa Mihajlovic
    Stuart Pearce
    Emmanuel Petit
    Stefan Schwarz
    Steve Staunton
    Christian Ziege
     
  15. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1990-1995: Central Defenders

    Tony Adams
    Phillippe Albert
    Aldair
    Rafael Alkorta
    Franco Baresi
    Miodrag Belodedici
    Laurent Blanc
    Danny Blind
    Basile Boli
    Rune Bratseth
    Guido Buchwald
    Alessandro Costacurta
    Fernando Couto
    Marcel Desailly
    Miroslav Djukic
    Ricardo Gomes
    Richard Gough
    Thomas Helmer
    Fernando Hierro
    Julio Cesar
    Miroslav Kadlec
    Ronald Koeman
    Jurgen Kohler
    Paul McGrath
    Miguel Angel Nadal
    Gary Pallister
    Ricardo Rocha
    Manolo Sanchis
    Marcio Santos
    Pietro Vierchowod
    Des Walker
    Mark Wright

    (Donato, Mozer, Onopko, Popescu, Ruggeri)

    Couto and Wright are first on the firing line, with Popescu and Ruggeri as the main challengers.
     
  16. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    #41 Ariaga II, Jan 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    1990-1995: Defensive/Central Midfielders

    Demetrio Albertini
    Guillermo Amor
    Dino Baggio
    Zvonimir Boban
    Jose Luis Caminero
    Didier Deschamps
    Dunga
    Stefan Effenberg
    Paul Gascoigne
    Pep Guardiola
    Ray Houghton
    Paul Ince
    Wim Jonk
    Vladimir Jugovic
    Christian Karembeu
    Roy Keane
    Lothar Matthäus
    Paul McStay
    David Platt
    Fernando Redondo
    Frank Rijkaard
    Matthias Sammer
    Bernd Schuster
    Mauro Silva
    Diego Simeone
    Paulo Sousa
    Gordon Strachan
    Jonas Thern
    Andy Townsend
    Valdo
    Aron Winter
    Jan Wouters

    (Berti, Lechkov, McAllister, Mikhailichenko, Rincon, Speed, Sforza, Van Der Elst)
     
  17. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1990-1995: Attacking Midfielders/Wingers

    Roberto Baggio
    Krasimir Balakov
    John Barnes
    Dennis Bergkamp
    Tomas Brolin
    Claudio Caniggia
    Thomas Doll
    Roberto Donadoni
    Enzo Francescoli
    Paulo Futre
    Ryan Giggs
    David Ginola
    Ruud Gullit
    Gheorghe Hagi
    Andreas Herzog
    Thomas Hässler
    Andrei Kanchelskis
    Brian Laudrup
    Luis Enrique
    Michael Laudrup
    Roberto Mancini
    Michel
    Andreas Möller
    Marc Overmars
    Abedi Pele
    Robert Prosinecki
    Rai
    Dejan Savicevic
    Enzo Scifo
    Igor Shalimov
    Carlos Valderrama
    Gianfranco Zola

    (Bakero, Begiristain, Rui Costa, Djorkaeff, Figo, Massaro, McManaman, Muller, Neto, Zidane)

    -Some big names on the bench here. Figo and Zidane didn't really make their name until the late 90s (it seemed both Pinto and Costa were rated above Figo in this era), so they'll make room for others.

    -Valderrama is a similar case to Ortega. He totally failed in Europe, but his all-around profile is too high to leave off the list completely.

    -Neto is an interesting case. He was hailed as the next big thing/new Falcao, but then lost form. He makes it as an honorable mention.
     
  18. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1990-1995: Forwards

    Faustino Asprilla
    Abel Balbo
    Gabriel Batistuta
    Bebeto
    Alen Boksic
    Emilio Butragueno
    Eric Cantona
    Stephane Chapuisat
    Martin Dahlin
    Daniel Fonseca
    Mark Hughes
    Jurgen Klinsmann
    Emil Kostadinov
    Ally McCoist
    Darko Pancev
    Jean-Pierre Papin
    Luboslav Penev
    Karl-Heinz Riedle
    Romario
    Ian Rush
    Dean Saunders
    Alan Shearer
    Giuseppe Signori
    Tomas Skuhravy
    Ruben Sosa
    Hristo Stoichkov
    Marco Van Basten
    Gianluca Vialli
    Rudi Völler
    George Weah
    Tony Yeboah
    Ivan Zamorano

    (Beardsley, Ferdinand, Suker, Ian Wright)

    -My non-ESM list seems to be more attack-oriented than the ESM-based lists. I basically threw everyone I could from here into the AMF/W side. But managed to include everyone I really wanted to.

    -Van Basten (and Futre) just about have the bare minimum 2.5 seasons completed. They were such high-profile players they need to be in, though.

    -Pancev is another player whose peak is situated between eras. He doesn't have the required 3 years, but he had his most high-profile moment in this era, so he's included.
     
  19. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Interesting note that popped to my mind when reading WS:
    I think we can all agree club football has a much higher status in the modern era than back in the day. I think 90-95 is the era when this first happened, as I seemed to notice a clear shift in WS towards club football, with less space devoted to qualifiers, for example. I'm going to suggest the early 90s tournaments had an effect in changing popular perceptions. The piss-poor 90 WC counted among its stars a scarecrow of a goalkeeper, a 60-year old dancing geriatric and some Italian pub-level striker, and it made the football community wake up to the fact maybe NT-tournaments were no longer the zenith of footballing achievement. This was backed by the following Euro, won by a team that had failed to qualify.

    Meanwhile, Berlusconi & co. were bringing some proper glamour back to club football, with the big leagues making full use of the three foreigner rule. Before that, a player's reputation was much more tied to NT performances, as a lot of the top players still made much of their career in smaller clubs. Meanwhile, even the EC was often won by teams that had only like a couple of world class stars, and then a bunch of basically league-level players. I'm imagining my own rankings will follow this shift. In the eras covered so far, we've had a bunch of players who received very few caps, and were nominated primary for their club performances. In earlier eras there will be less of these players, who didn't have a lot of opportunities to show their stuff at NT-level, which would have been viewed as being above club-level.
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    How do you explain that 70s and 80s all-time lists had many players in (including up to half of the top 20 or 30) that actually did not really shine at international tournaments, the world cup or even never played there... ?

    By the way, already in the mid 1960s World Soccer claimed/wrote club teams could reach a higher level of interplay and performance.
     
  21. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Well, I'm not saying club football didn't matter at all. I'm saying the 90s were the era when the scale started tipping more towards club level. I'll elaborate.

    I believe WS was referring to Real Madrid and Barca as the higher level clubs, right? Of course the most legendary clubs of the time were on par with the top-level national teams, but I'd say they were few and far between. From the 60s and 70s we'd have Real, Barca, Inter and maybe Ajax who I would say were on par with their respective national teams, and that's about it. The other clubs were basically carried by a couple of world class players aided by fairly basic league performers. Take a legendary team like 70s Bayern. They had their big 3 in Maier, Beckenbauer and Muller, along with major internationals Breitner, Schwarzenbeck and Hoeness. That still leaves half a team of "wait, whos". Or how about the 60s Man United that had their own big 3, with the rest of the team made of pretty basic league performers.

    It was also quite common for EC-final matches to feature a true outsider, like a team that had no major stars. By the 80s we start getting more teams, I'd say Liverpool and Juve, who were superior to their respective NTs, but the EC-final teams still featured a lot of clubs that had maybe a couple major stars, if that. By the 90s these teams no longer reached the final, which were dominated by the dream teams that had major stars in all areas of the pitch. See what I'm saying? The observers at the time saw that success at club level, even European club level, was not necessarily an indication of absolute top class.

    In a similar vein, in the 60s it was still possible to win the Ballon with primarily NT-performances (Masopust, Yashin, Albert). By the 90s all the big names were playing in the big leagues. Have you noticed how the old WS-issues always mention how many internationals a club team had? It was like a major badge of honor, even if it was some mid-ranking NT.
     
  22. Xylophone

    Xylophone Member

    Fiorentina
    Jan 30, 2018
    I'd suggest Igor Akinfeev for the 2005-2010 goalkeepers list. He won the Russian Premier League twice during this time period, plus a few domestic cups. In addition, he won the UEFA Cup back in 2005, as well as being part of the Russian team that made it to the Euro 2008 semifinal.

    Maybe Hasan Salihamidzic for the 2000-2005 midfielders list? And Joaquin instead of someone like Jerome Rothen perhaps? Would
     
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  23. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1960-1965

    After weeks of painstaking research, I'm finally ready to unleash the next installment of my methodology!

    The most important discovery is that, even after traveling back 30 years, the methodology is still sound. In fact, it's quite amazing how constant the number of great players is. For most positions there were once again 12 or so obvious candidates, with the remaining spots getting filled from a larger pool. The important thing is that it didn't feel like an injustice to drop anybody.

    For this era, I'm going to use the WM-formation as the basis for my system. 4-2-4 was already in wide use, but so was WM, and the amount of great players fitted in naturally into a WM, meaning there were a lot more major attacking players and less defensive ones. As always, fullbacks are the problem area. After the obvious 12, I had to squeeze in basically anybody I could possibly think of. As can be expected, inside-forwards were the most crowded area. Could've used a couple more spots, but after shuffling players around a bunch between positions, I'm good. I was supposed to split the forwards between inside- and centre-forwards, but there were too many goalscoring CF types, so I broke the WM-mold and separated them into AMFs and general FWs.

    The methodology is a combination of WS-research, number of caps and online reputation. I used WS primarily, but it's hopelessly inadequate on some fields, especially with regard to defenders, so I had to give some players the benefit of the doubt.
     
  24. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1960-1965: Goalkeepers

    Bill Brown (Scotland)
    Antonio Carbajal (Mexico)
    Amadeo Carrizo (Argentina)
    Alberto Da Costa Pereira (Portugal)
    Gernot Fraydl (Austria)
    Gilmar (Brazil)
    Harry Gregg (Northern Ireland)
    Jean Nicolay (Belgium)
    Bengt Nyholm (Sweden)
    Eddy Pieters Graafland (Netherlands)
    Antonio Roma (Argentina)
    Viliam Schrojf (Czechoslovakia)
    Milutin Soskic (Yugoslavia)
    Ron Springett (England)
    Hans Tilkowski (Germany)
    Lev Yashin (USSR)

    (Pierre Bernard, Wolfgang Fahrian, Turgay Seren)

    -It seemed like a good and interesting era for goalkeepers, with a lot of choices. One noticeable thing is the lack of a Spanish or Italian goalie, probably the only time in history? Spain were between goalies, while Italy didn't seem to be able to pick their #1, so it was hard to find a standout.

    -Fraydl is first on the chopping block. He made it twice for the Batty/WS world 11, but there were also examples of him making howlers or losing his spot. Also not fully convinced of the Benelux representatives.
     
  25. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    1960-1965: Fullbacks

    RB:
    Jimmy Armfield (England)
    Orvar Bergmark (Sweden)
    Tarcisio Burgnich (Italy)
    Vladimir Durkovic (Yugoslavia)
    Luis Eyzaguirre (Chile)
    Gerhard Hanappi (Austria)
    Georges Heylens (Belgium)
    Jan Lala (Czechoslovakia)
    Lima (Brazil)
    Sandor Matrai (Hungary)
    Hans Nowak (Germany)
    Jose Ramos Delgado (Argentina)
    Feliciano Rivilla (Spain)
    Djalma Santos (Brazil)
    Klaus Urbanczyk (DDR)
    Jean Wendling (France)

    (George Cohen, Enzo Robotti, Carmelo Simeone)

    LB:
    Altair (Brazil)
    Victor Benitez (Peru)
    Eric Caldow (Scotland)
    Ignacio Calleja (Spain)
    Noel Cantwell (Ireland)
    Giacinto Facchetti (Italy)
    Fahrudin Jusufi (Yugoslavia)
    Andre Lerond (France)
    Silvio Marzolini (Argentina)
    Ladislav Novak (Czechoslovakia)
    Rildo (Brazil)
    Enzo Robotti (Italy)
    Nilton Santos (Brazil)
    Laszlo Sarosi (Hungary)
    Karl-Heinz Schnellinger (Germany)
    Ray Wilson (England)

    (Hilario, William Martinez)

    -Like I said, I basically had to include anyone I could possibly come up with, including players who WS didn't exactly shower with praise. Also the likes of Caldow, Nilton Santos and the Frenchies, who I'm not sure necessarily had the required 3 years at the top.

    -Urbanczyk is the most unclear case for me. I seem to recall WS hyping him up, but it wasn't in the issues for this era. He wasn't a regular starter for the late 60s, though, so we'll see.
     

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