Messi vs. football records

Discussion in 'Players & Legends' started by Bada Bing, Mar 9, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich

    Perhaps you should invest some time in learning about the dark chapters in your own country’s history, like Colonialism and Slave trade, before you showcase your houlier-than-everyone-else attitude.

    With your hatred and loathing for certain nations, you really stand out negatively in the history of this forum. There never has been a poster to my knowledge that was as bitter about certain things as you, so aggressively negative towards certain individuals and countries. You live in a oversimplified black-and-white world.

    At the same time, you are the touchiest poster around. God beware someone says something negative about your beloved “Dutchies”.

    For over 10 years, this forum has been a nice place for discussions between individuals interested in the history of football in a genial and respective way.

    Since your arrival, this has sadly changed.

    You brought bitter nationalism and conspiracy theories bordering on the ridiculous to this forum.

    If you would just stick to sharing your great knowledge of the game and got rid of all the bad vibes? Just keep your personal issues to yourself?

    Too much asked?
     
    Bada Bing repped this.
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  3. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes it is. It's most club trophies before the age 26.

    Yeah, they looked really good in that clip letting Cruyff waltz through half the pitch just standing, and then just one player tried to stop him. Amazing.
     
  4. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It was the point of flying to different timezone and environment every time you play WCQ match, home or away. In case you failed to see it.
     
  5. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    By the way, apparently you want to pull it in general history (rather than football history, and what happened in football).

    I reckon you should learn something about those chapters, Bavarian beer drinker. I don't accept it that someone born in Bavaria feel the need to teach me something about this.

    The amount of slaves traded by the Dutch was 500000 at the worst. And only a very small percentage died. As many scientists have argued, the term 'black holocaust' by the Afro lobby is very misleading. No matter how bad and immoral it was, the purpose was not to annihilate them.

    Killing a slave was sanctioned with the death penalty - a fact.

    No need to juxtapose this figure of 500000 deported slaves against other historical facts.

    Thanks to historical sentiments the tendency to overstate this slavery episode is greater as the tendency to downplay it. Foreign testimonies like American schoolbooks pretend as if it was more horrible as what the English brothers or other nations did. Again, that is no surprise to me of course.

    Some slave ships never existed. They are imagined and made up (by foreigners), thanks to poor/lazy historical research and indifference to the subject (as far as the Dutch share is concerned).
    http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2844...e-slavernij-duurt-bij-veel-mensen-voort.dhtml

    Some convoys (mentioned in Dutch schoolbooks) never took place and even then, at the very worst the figure does not exceed the 500000-600000.

    And yes, every single slave is one too many (unfortunately slavery still exists today).


    As "payback" for you:
    Youtube
    True words on 41:43

    Daniel Goldhagen also knows this.
     
  6. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Interesting, but I fail to see what that has to do with Messi vs. football records?
     
  7. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    It was you who stated that Germany is a "inhererently evil nation". That is a racist statement, btw. You state that all Germans are inherently evil which is obviously wrong.

    It's pretty sad how you label me a "Bavarian beer drinker" just because I was born in Munich. My father's family is from close to the Dutch border and my grandmother's maiden name was "van Eick". And my mother is from close of the Danish border.

    You need to stop thinking in black-and-white patterns.
     
  8. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Munich
    So what? Read the rest of the replies, too. I have no problem with Dutch football at all and admire the 1974 team as one of the best in history. Why do you ignore that? Johan Neeskens obviously was on the wrong track when she thought I was trying to put down Dutch football. As you're so good at tracking old posts, show me a post where I was talking of Dutch football the same manner as you do talk of German football?

    ... says the guy who is arguing ad nauseam that de Jong's foul in the 2010 World Cup was not deserving of a straight red card ....
     
  9. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Which of Maradona's teammates in WC86 had a great career besides Bochini (who only played 20 minutes)? They were decent players who showed great discipline and self-sacrifice for the greater good, but none of them is a standout in any historical list and rightly so. Maradona won it pretty much single-handedly, no Maradona and Argentina says bye to the tournament in the round of 16 to Uruguay.
     
  10. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    But Messi also had a chance to compete in more than other players, such as Beckenbauer and Muller (probably other greats too). A fair comparison is done through percentage not gross numbers.

    Doing the unexpected makes the opponent stand still in doubt. But the point was the Cruyff dared pull of that kind of play against the powerful Germany of the seventies, what did Messi do against a lesser version of Germany in WC10?
     
  11. Bada Bing

    Bada Bing Member+

    Jul 13, 2012
    Finland
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It's a comparison, you can make another if you want, that's why I said include only European Cup and national league, if that helps you.

    Maybe you should watch the game, he did more than any other Argentine, like probably Cruyff did in his match. But the difference was that Argentine team was far worse team, and coached even worse.

    Furthermore this all just illustrates the naivety of limiting all time great label, based on 1 or 2 team performance's in whole career.
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    It can result in very dangerous events when the nation is conflated with the people or, worse, when the nation becomes conflated with a thing as 'race' or racism.

    Sorry.

    Already did that in the past. No need to do it again.

    A reminder (regarding Anne Frank etc.):
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/career-stats-johan-cruijff.142414/

    Never argued it in that way. That is wrong.


    A problem is that you like to humiliate people, take a superior stance or position, and sing a different song on different circumstances.

    I will build my case on a example:

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...less-talented-clubs-than-france.280415/page-2
    Notice how others also see this brushing off of others and even applaud it ("the worst choice to argue with").

    Over there you argue that watching the 1975 and 1976 European Cup finals would lead to a wrong impression about Beckenbauer. Notice how you totally humiliate someone.
    But when I actually do that, you turn it in such a way that the 'cold' and mediocre performances in Europe become a big plus for Bayern and their star players ('70s vs 80s' thread). Plus again a veiled hit towards me that I "don't understand football".

    Similarly, over here you emphasize how Beckenbauer was a defender and could naturally not shine as bright as forwards or attacking midfielders:
    https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...ominate-a-decade.1273623/page-2#post-19608275

    But when someone actually tries to rate him as a defender (and hence acknowledges what you say above), accusations of "nitpicking" and whatever flow around. Then the trick is to say "but he wasn't a defender, he was a forward [playmaker] at the back". As of late, in the '70s vs 80s thread', you switched to the "defensive midfielder by heart" line of reasoning, a midfielder who played at the back, instead of a free role attacker or 'rugged' defender (I think I actually agree with this interpretation).

    While it is naturally hard for humans to be 100% consistent, it is though very annoying how you like to humiliate others from a perceived position of superiority, and 'protect' yourself from further scrutiny. Not only in the case of me, but also with others. When I said "but you was in the stadium of course" your comment of "I own 100 DVDs and countless match reports" garnered applause.

    This is only one example.
     

Share This Page