The consecutive league games scoring streak comes to an end, at 21. Messi also wins his 20 trophy with Barcelona, which 9 are major ones. And this season will be the "Napoli" moment of his career. Club trophies before the age 26. 1. Messi, Barcelona 20 2. Pele, Santos 19 3. Cruyff, Ajax 14 4. Beckenbauer, Bayern Munich 6 5. Maradona, Boca, Barcelona 4
yes, plus National team trophies, no one came close to Pele (- total 29 including 2 WC's) Country Brazil Roca Cup: 1957, 1963 FIFA World Cup: Winner: 1958 Winner: 1962 Winner: 1970 Copa América: Runner-up: 1959 Cruz Cup: 1958, 1962, 1968[145][146] Bernardo O'Higgins Cup: 1959[147] Atlantic Cup: 1960[148] Oswaldo Cruz Cup: 1958, 1962, 1968[146]
AT least he did play, and scored 1, assist 1/ 1.5games there WC62 (before got injured). Now if you want to take off WC62 for Pele - fine, then you should also take off Liga 2004,2005 super copa 2005, 2006 and UCL2006 off Messi (who was a BENCH player at Barca - ) So in all at 26: Pele won 19 clubs cups, and 9 NT cups (minus WC62) Messi won 15 club cups, and 2 NT cups (all youth cups) DEAL or NO DEAL? LOL ============================================ Remember Cruijff's comment : " I can be a new Di stefano, but Pele's stats are just beyond the LIMIT of LOGICS"
Pele only won 2 major trophies for Santos in international level, 0 national level major competitions. Messi 3 in international and 6 in national. Also Messi doesn't have a hundred different NT-level lol cups to play.
Yeah right ... The HUGE difference is 1- Santos had NEVER won any before Pele won for them (TWO consecutive ). Barca won many ligas and 2UCL + 3 UCL finalist before Messi became their best player there! 2- It took Santos nearly 50years (half a century) after Pele retired to be able to win the 3rd one (thanks to Neymar Ganso)! Barca will continue to WIN after Messi retire very soon. That's I am SURE
Umm, yeah other great teams win when they are great, and when they aren't, they wont, what was the point? Barca didn't win anything in five seasons before Messi, with, 20 titles in 9 years.
Ignorant of the FACT Messi was SO LUCKY to have watched and LEARNED from Ronaldinho and Etoo winning the liga 04 and 05, and UCL2006 ... before he became the key player! YET it took Messi and PEP 3 more years to have won another w/o Ronnie and Etoo LOL
Canadian who acts like he's Brazilian telling Barcelona fan how his team played. Messi was the key player against Chelsea in UCL06, yeah better than Ronaldinho or Eto'o. Before Messi Barcelona didn't win anything in 5 years, before Pele, Santos won two previous lol leagues.
This is the LAST post for a Messi fan boy of yours. (BTW you're NOT Barca fan but Messi fanboy) 1- IGNORANT FACT: EVERY BARCA fan KNOWS Roanldinho and Rijkaard won UCL2006 (w/o Messi) Winners UEFA Footballer of the year Below is a list of all the recipients of the award: 2005–06 BRA Ronaldinho Forward Barcelona Ronnie did WIN UCL2006 MVP OK? (Messi watched him received the award on the rink) 2- Messi vs Chelsea record was the NITEMARE he should erase in his resume: 0goals +1ass/8games . IGNORANT FACT: Ronaldinho and Etoo scored vs Chelsea 1st leg, Ronaldinho also scored in 2nd leg ( Please check WIKI before saying something stupid)
Sometimes I wonder if JamesBH11 and Bada Bing are the same person who likes to create fake arguments. You guys are always going at it
Who is my Messi fanboy? Yeah Ronaldinho was the player of the season, but this is football, which is played by collection of individuals as a team and Messi was Barcelona's best and most crucial player against Chelsea in the knockout stages. So he more than deserved to win the title. Messi's first league win was more like Pele WC62 though. And I think you James will appreciate this comment Ronaldinho [On receiving the Ballon d’Or in 2006] “This award says I’m the best player in the world, but I’m not even the best player at Barcelona.”
Now he breaks records without even playing. Messi wins 12-13 European Golden Shoe-award as league top scorer in Europe with 46 goals. It's his 3rd which is more than anyone else has. It also breaks the record of the difference between the first and second with 12 goals, as the second one was Cristiano Ronaldo with 34 goals. The old record of 11 goals happened in 76-77, between Georgescu with 47 goals and Varady with 36 goals. Which is unbelievable considering that Messi was injured or half fit the last 2 months of the season. European Golden Shoe 1967-2013 3 Lionel Messi 2 Eusébio Gerd Müller Dudu Georgescu Fernando Gomes Ally McCoist Mário Jardel Thierry Henry Diego Forlán Cristiano Ronaldo
Adding UCL top scorers (yearly): 4 Messi = Muller 3 Puskas = Eusebio = Papin = Nistelrooy 2 .... too many to list
Although a lot of those were tied with other players, Messi's and Nistelrooy's are the only ones with all singular wins. European Cup/ Champions League Top Scorer 1955-2013 4 Messi Gerd Müller (2 tied with 1 other player) 3 Nistelrooy Eusebio (2 tied with 1) Puskas (1 tied with 4, 1 tied with 2) Papin (3 tied with 1)
That's true ... If messi will go one winning 2 more UCL, he will definitely be the best ever in UEFA/UCL without contest
a wrongfully recalled goal in the final 1976 against st. eitienne has cost gerd müller a tie with jupp heynckes for the topscorer title..the only reason müller wasnt 5 times eurochampionscup topscorer in ROW between 1973-1977..tied or not ..müller and beckenbauer have played 6 eurochampionscup seasons.. first round for heynckes 1976: gladbach-insbruck 1:1 insbruck-gladbach 1:6 ,heynckes 4 goals second round: juventus-gladbach 2:2 gladbach-juventus 2:0, heynckes 1 goal quarterfinal: gladbach-real madrid 2:2 real madrid-gladbach 1:1, heynckes 1 goal first round for müller 1976: esch-bayern 0:5 (müller has played 25 minutes,left the field with a exploded muscle in his tigh)... müller returned in quarterfinal: benfica-bayern 0:0, müller has played in midfield bayern-benfica 5:1, müller 2 goals ,1 assist semifinal: real madrid-bayern 1:1 , müller 1 goal bayern-real madrid 2:0,müller 2 goals final: eitienne-bayern 0:1, franz roth scored the gamewinning goal in the second half...müllers wrongfully recalled goal was in minute 2 of the game... 1977 müller was tied with a player from swiss, both 5 goals..müller has played 4 games the other player 7 games....müller had a back surgery and was out 3 months..he didnt play the quarterfinals against kiew and bayern was eliminated against kiew.... a sidenote: in this 3 months without gerd müller 1976/77, bayern munich was eliminated in german cup too..bayern did loose in berlin 4:2 ....bayern in 9 bundesliga games without müller fell from bundesliga ranking 2 to bundesliga ranking 10 (2 wins,2 draws,5 defeats) 5:15 goals in 9 games....with gerd müller bayern munich in 25 bundesliga games has scored 69 goals... combinated bundesliga,european cup and german cup bayern munich has scored amazing 8 goals in 12 games without müller.... how many goals barca has scored this season without messi and how many defeats?? barca in 6 la liga games without messi, 6 wins , 17:2 goals????...the situation for messi is so miserable...
Barca didn't play against any top opposition, but partly PSG and Bayern without Messi, and we all know what happened there. Barca - PSG 1 half with fit Messi and 30 minutes with one legged Messi 2-0. Barca - PSG 100 minutes without Messi 1-3. Barca - Bayern with and without injured Messi 0-7. In La Liga from the six games, two were against relegatated Mallorca and Zaragoza, 1-0 scrape against mid table Levante at home, and rest were when the titles and rankings were already decided. Here's direct comparison to Maradona, I also added Ronaldo's most influential season. As we can see Messi has now carried Barcelona two seasons, like Maradona did once in Napoli, even when the team diluted the results against relegation fodder and when the league was already decided, and when Barca still tried to go for 100 points. Müller was a striker poacher type of player, who relied on other players service. Messi is probably the most individualistic goal scorer ever, and that's why Messi's goal scoring records are actually much more impressive.
Ballon d'Or/ FIFA Ballon d'Or 1956- 4 Messi 3 Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten 2 Di Stefano, Ronaldo, Beckenbauer, Keegan, Rummenigge Onze d'Or 1976- (European player, Onze Mondial) 3 Messi, Zidane, Platini 2 Maradona, Ronaldo, Van Basten, Henry, Keegan World Soccer Player Of The Year 1982- (World Soccer Magazine) 3 Messi, Ronaldo 2 Platini, Gullit, Van Basten, Ronaldinho 1 Maradona, Zico, Zidane... UEFA Club Footballer/ Best Player 1997- 2 Messi European Cup/ Champions League Top Scorer 1955- 4 Messi, Müller 3 Puskas, Eusebio, Papin, Nistelrooy 2 Di Stefano, Nilsson, Romario, Raul, Shevchenko, C.Ronaldo European Golden Shoe 1967- 3 Messi 2 Eusebio, Müller, Georgescu, Gomes, McCoist, Jardel, Henry, Forlan, C.Ronaldo Spot the common factor.
While Messi is already an all-time great, him having more Balon D'Ors than Cruyff, DiStefano or Platini at this stage of his career just shows that either this era is relatively weak in great players or that the award standards have changed (or both). If Messi were to retire from football today, do you think he should be considered a greater player than Cruyff, despite having done zilch of relevance at the WC or his continental championship?
Much about that have already been said in this thread (with Cristiano Ronaldo having five trophies under the old rules) but within that context also this post in another thread fits: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...s-barcelona-2011.1982268/page-6#post-27906850 Maybe it is not only the era of 'super teams' but also of 'super athletes'. The links I posted in that post covers that a bit as well. Other popular sports being dominated by a handful (or only two) athletes is also no rarity at the moment, at the past 10 years (Federer and Nadal share 29 Grand Slam titles between them, for example).