Measuring Success - The Arsenal (Emery) Barometer

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by ArsenalJake, Aug 20, 2018.

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  1. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Are these kind of terms common in European managerial contracts? Is this even legal in the EU?
     
  2. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Restraints of trade in the UK have long been held to be legal, but generally they cannot be for an unreasonable period. In the context of mega contracts, reasonable periods will tend to be longer than for mere mortals

    The other thing to keep in mind is that if Spurs is paying out the entire value of his contract, then he is sort of on gardening leave.

    Were he to take another job in the interim, then his financial loss is much less, in which case Spurs might not owe him the full 12m

    So as you can see, it might be quite reasonable for Spurs to pay out 12m in return for restraining him domestically.
     
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  3. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Not sure what the law exactly is in the UK, but the same concepts apply as in the US.

    My guess (and this really is a guess) is that Sperz paying Pochettino the balance of the contract makes a "you can't manage in England without forfeiting the money" limitation reasonable. It would probably fly in every state in the US.
     
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  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Also true - there's probably an offset for any compensation Poch receives from Bayern or Real.
     
  5. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Also, I'd be shocked if some kind of "you can't manage Arsenal" provision isn't included in Sperz's standard managerial contract. They tried to delay the Bale sale so we couldn't buy Ozil, after all.
     
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  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    IIRC this happened with LvG at Utd

    They just kept paying him full whack, unless/until he got another job to mitigate
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Although the termination provisions are likely in the contract you sign, there does seem to be a lot of negotiation around the final terms for managers in football.

    I guess because under UK employment law, simply terminating peoples fixed term contracts has a shakey legal basis?

    Its not like the US where you can sack people.
     
  8. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Sure - this is standard damages stuff. But it's probably set out in the initial managerial contract, along with "if we fire you you can't manage [X] for the duration" plus "you can't trigger a buyout clause to go to [X & Y]".
     
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  9. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Maybe, but the termination provisions that get negotiated are probably the ones around money and not around exclusions - people who are being offered the Liverpool job aren't going to try to negotiate away contractual exclusions of Manchester United and Chelsea, after all.
     
  10. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That was a honeypot question to trap all the lawyers in one thread forever . @yossarian recuse yourself from moderation duties and get someone else to lock all the lawyers in here
     
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  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You missed quite a few (though some no longer post).
     
  12. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only play a lawyer on tv.
     
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  13. MilesW

    MilesW Member+

    Aug 26, 2010
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Poch to Bayern, ten Heg to Arsenal.
     
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  14. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How's his English?
     
  15. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    More fuel for the Kroenke overruling Gazidis theory:

     
  16. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Boom! Think it's convenient to blame Gazidis for this but if he was really invested in Emery there's no way he would've left in the way he did. Raùl stabbed him in the back and went over his head.
     
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  17. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He's Dutch, it's automatically better than Fergie's at the very least
     
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  18. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Also possible.
     
  19. Super Llama

    Super Llama Member+

    May 21, 2006
    Seattle
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I kinda think it's both, but that Raul initiated it by out-maneuvering Gazidis and getting to Josh who changed the parameters of the search to be more conservative
     
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  20. MilesW

    MilesW Member+

    Aug 26, 2010
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States


    seems pretty good
     
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  21. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so is his actual football IQ
     
  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good enough for me. Hire him up!
     
  23. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Moving Mebe's post here because I think it is a bigger topic

    I find it fascinating because I nerded out on the Wehrmacht doctrine of Schwerpunkt for panzer offensives :ROFLMAO:

    The early Wehrmacht superiority had nothing to do with "blitzkreig" but rather centred around operational doctrine. A war of manoeuvre in other words. The key thing is that critical decision making about battlefield manoeuvre was distributed. So in other words a battlefield commander reacts to conditions in front of him on the fly, changing his axis of advance without waiting to get permission. This is what the Americans call situational awareness. It is extremely hard to defend against because even if you win your local tactical battle, you may find yourself swiftly outmanoeuvred and lacking coordination while your commanders try to understand and react.

    As Jose himself manager 'splained to Neville and Carra, UK punditry is obsessed with tactical considerations (low block, possession) and often confuses these with strategic approaches, while almost no attention is paid to operational matters i.e. how well will you deliver your tactics on the pitch? It doesn't matter if you play a mid or low block if you are not compact or lack the correct orientations. According to Jose, this is usually where games are lost - at the operational or delivery level.

    As Jose (and Guardiola) have pointed out, strategy cannot really be changed game to game as the games come too fast. Your already constructed your squad. You have a manager with a "philosophy". There is no time to reset - all that happened pre-season.

    Rather, a manager like Guardiola, will select and explain the tactical solutions for the game. What doesn't change is the higher levels of situational awareness and strategy.

    Guardiola will defeat you via positional play (strategy) & the situational awareness of the players (operations).

    So you know De Bruyne will try to get into the half spaces and hurt you from there. Any manager knows this, and will adopt tactical solutions to try to stop it.

    The difficulty is actually in stopping De Bruyne in real time rather than in abstract, because his awareness and intelligence is so high, and the team will work to put him into those spaces.

    It is this aspect that Emery is crap at. He constantly tinkers with tactical aspects but is very poor at delivering them on the pitch (something Jose excels at even if you disagree with his "strategy")

    tldr; Emery fails at the organisational and operational levels. He sends his players out with complicated tactical plans, but the players are confused, lack co-ordination, and don't appear to know how they should implement his plans. When they suffer setbacks, they quickly lose belief in his plans.

    /anorak
     
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  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Jose himself explains this in terms of "football fundamentals" and "needing to be good in every moment of the game".

    The example he uses is that a team must anticipate loss of possession rather than react to it.

    Emery is really bad at this organisational / executional stuff.
     
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  25. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The decision to move LT forward makes no sense when we signed Ceballos to play the higher role

     
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