MD22: Roma v Sampdoria - deja vu (January 28th, 2018)

Discussion in 'AS Roma' started by Java65, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is such a disconnect between the wings and the 3 in the middle its insane.

    Fans at the stadium tonight were absolutely pissed, haven't heard these types of whistles in a while.
     
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  2. Big Bad Wolf

    Big Bad Wolf Member+

    Dec 17, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    The first 25-30 mins of this match were more disconcerting for me than the actual final result. After the earlier results (Inter draw/Lazio loss) and opportunity it presented, to then come out and produce that kind of insipid display was disturbing.
     
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  3. rougou

    rougou Member+

    Dec 7, 2003
    Hyogo
    Club:
    AS Roma
    As usual, we like to make the Sorrentinos and Vivianos look like Buffon and Neuer combined.I now expect a loss or draw every time so I'll be surprised when we actually manage to win.
     
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  4. Forzaabruzzo

    Forzaabruzzo Member+

    Apr 19, 2006
    Im referring more to the constant revolving door that is AS Roma. We've been notorious for continuously flipping players instead of actually trying to build a cohesive squad. This isn't a recent phenomena
     
  5. Hustle and Flo

    Hustle and Flo Member+

    May 20, 2015
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #130 Hustle and Flo, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018

    I don't mind someone with opposing opinion, but please for the love of god, add some intelligence.

    "Zeman-lover" , "PSG-lover" , "circus-clown Monchi" , "delusional Americans", "I'm a prophet".... I mean it never stops with this guy. He adds nothing but retarded negativity or opportunities to pat himself on the back for things he got completely wrong. There's never any insight , or interesting opinions. It's just post after post of him insulting Palotta/Monchi/EDF with childish nicknames.

    He doesn't even communicate with us (which is the point of this site) , other than to complain we're treating him badly.

    Try being a human being , and communicating , Lord Nelson. You know, exchange thoughts and ideas ; maybe even have a debate? All you do is insult everything/everyone , and then get offended when people go off on you.

    Hopefully, this is just some peculiar internet persona you've created and you like being a provocateur.

    Otherwise, I sincerely feel bad for the people who have to deal with you with any regularity.

    So please, for my sake L.H, can you just attempt at being a humble person and maybe, just maybe, actually try to communicate? Maybe try asking a question to someone , or ask for a group consensus on some creative idea you have for the lineup/transfer business? Try to contribute something, anything, but your daily hubris, insults, and doomsday predictions.

    You honestly just post here like you're talking to yourself , but you want someone to listen.

    It's beyond odd.
     
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  6. GamE_Ove12

    GamE_Ove12 Member+

    Jul 7, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Genuine question- has there been any growth in EDF game since the beginning of the season?

    I'd go as far saying there hasn't been any growth in his game since his Sassuolo days. It is almost exactly the same approach, despite clearly not having the personal for it.

    Based on what we have seen thus far, there is absolutely no guarantee more time will translate to growth and learning from mistakes.

    I don't condone firing coaches in the middle of the season because it most of the time has more downs than ups. The mistake was made in June 2017 when someone (Monchi if you believe him) thought it was a smart idea to gamble on unproven inexperienced one dimensional coach in a very volatile and unstable environment like Roma's. Own up to the mistake and wait until the summer to fix it. If a miracle happens from now until then and EDF magically learns, then all is good. But more likely they better be preparing a list for potential candidates now.
     
  7. rougou

    rougou Member+

    Dec 7, 2003
    Hyogo
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Not sure what EDF could have done, other than walk onto the pitch and score himself. There's a place for complaining, but not after this match
     
  8. Hustle and Flo

    Hustle and Flo Member+

    May 20, 2015
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #133 Hustle and Flo, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    How do you quantify that? The simple answer would be team performance and results. But does that really prove "growth"? I'm not so sure it does.

    People can point to head-scratching line-up decisions, or rigid formational philosophies , or to whatever they want, to create an answer that they think answers that question. I'm not sure it can be answered without more time.

    I haven't seen a handful of domestic games, so maybe my opinion is limited , but in the games I've watched , I've seen plenty of mid-game tactical adjustments that prove to me he isn't entirely dogmatic. Switching to a back 3 against Atletico and bringing on Fazio seemed like a counter intuitive decision, but it helped stabilize us , for example.

    It's not like he's blessed with a myriad of options. The squad isn't that deep, and there's a lot of skill-set redundancy in key positions.

    To a certain extent , I think his hands have been tied in terms of dealing with a roster that really doesn't suit his ethos. For example, I don't think Dzeko is the type of striker that flourishes in his system. Nor does he even have a left footed winger with even a season of experience. (which any coach would struggle overcoming). Unfortunately, we aren't mega-rich and we can't completely change a roster in a years time.

    I think he deserves the chance to prove himself with a roster that suits his philosophy. That doesn't mean this team is devoid of talent , or that we need to acquire big-name talent. I just mean players that actually suit him , regardless of ability. Politano, for example is rumoured to be on Napoli and Juventus' radar , and we let him go for nothing.

    It may sound cheesy, but I just want Roma fans to have faith in this guy. It's such a harsh fanbase sometimes, and I understand the importance of the Champions League spot. But, is it his fault that we're in such financial turmoil that dropping 1 place in the table causes massive ripple effects throughout the club?

    The same blame is being placed on Monchi as well. Years of mismanagement and terrible decisions (FFP) are being placed upon his shoulders.

    I mean, we haven't even given these guys a season and we're already calling for their heads?

    Monchi was brought in to revamp the entire organization and to get us (finally) financially healthy. He chose EDF because he felt the two of them could grow together and finally create a cohesive contunity this club desperately has needed. A united vision so-to-speak.

    At some point Roma fans need to ask themselves do they want more of the same, or do they want to try something different? Do we want to keep spinning our tires , or do we actually want to go through the necessary pain it will take for proper surgery?

    The football world is in another galaxy fiscally to when they last won the Scudetto. Roma can be competitive on the field and in the transfer market , even with all the insane inflation in other countries, (that doesn't look like it's stopping any time soon) , but it's going to take time and it's going to involve major decisions. And it involves getting talented young players. Look at all the transfers Monchi actually spent significant money on. It isn't a coincedence they're all young, and they all have potential re-sale value if necessary. Once a young player goes to England or is signed by a big-club , his wages are essentially out-of-whack for the rest of his career. Monchi has to get players before that happens and before they go for prices we can't hope to match. That is our ticket out of this mess and into prosperity.

    So we can sit here, and label young transfer signings "busts" , and we can criticize Monchi for Salah (or finding a replacement) without knowing all the finacial problems/restrictions/transfer dealings , and we can call for EDF's head before he's had a roster that suits him. We can do all of that.

    Or, we look at Monchi as one of the most highly (if not the) regarded directors of the last 20 years, we can look at the unheard of success at Sevilla he was the architect of , and we can look at EDF as the promising up-and-coming coaching prospect he was viewed to be before he joined Roma.

    Or, we can at the very least, meet in the middle, and give these guys a little more time.
     
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  9. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Short answer, I think pretty much every manager is somewhat one dimensional.
    What I think a manager can improve with experience is his in game subs and tweaks.

    I dont expect the manager at a top level club to take the group of players and figure out a way to play them. Thats something thats done at lower placed teams with limited resources.
    Managers have their ways of playing and the board bring in the personal to make them play it well. If it doesn't work generally they're sacked, a new guy comes in with his philosophy, and players will come and go to suit him.

    I think I see some parallel between what we're seeing now with EDF and what we seen with Rudi. At the time I was set on keeping Rudi and believed it was mostly a player problem. We went with a change of manager and obviously his fresh ideas gave them an immediate boost but Spalletti is a rare case. I think it could have been fixed with the introduction of attackers like SES and Perotti without the manager change anyway.

    IMO managers for the most part have their game plan and barring a few tweaks they never much change from it. What you're looking for is managers with a good enough game plan to roll with. Rudi, EDF etc all have good enough game plans, but they need the players. One tweak he could make to his system is a more specific attacking midfielder. While not a big change, it could be significant to our overall game giving us the extra dimension we're missing to add variety to the attack through the centre. That one link player could create good triangles with the likes of Perotti etc
    On top of that, a functioning right wing could be all thats needed. Its just hard to judge a manager when its clear he has from day one been given a squad with a major hole that is essential to his game.
     
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  10. GamE_Ove12

    GamE_Ove12 Member+

    Jul 7, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Tactical growth can be assessed using many surrogates beside results. The ability of the coach to adjust, innovate and create tactical identity. EDF has been using the exact tactical sentences that he used at Sassuolo. Literally, the same exact movements. Over and over again here, even when it is obvious the players are not suitable. Compare that to Spalletti, after his first few months at Roma in 2005, it was obvious his Udinese tactic wasn't working. He moved things around, created the Perrotta role and Totti became timeless is his false 9 tactics. He came back again and tinkered around until he masterfully got the best out of Nainggolan, Salah and Dzeko. Another example is Conte when moved to Juve and changed completely from his trademark 442 to 352 based on the personal. Pep at Bayern after Barca. Ancelotti almost every where he went. Capello, Mourinho..all showed ability to innovate with whatever squad they had at their disposal. I am no expecting EDF to live to their standards, but at least I want him to try.

    Am I seeing any signs of growth with EDF? Absolutely not. He is forcing something that isn't working and stubbornly not willing to adjust things even a little. The 433 we are playing now is the exact we played in August in every little detail.

    This is not a reactive assessment- I repeatedly said since the summer EDF is a very limited coach, and unfortunately there is yet to be any signs to suggest otherwise.
     
  11. Hustle and Flo

    Hustle and Flo Member+

    May 20, 2015
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Sure, you think EDF is dogmatic and unimaginative. You could be right.

    Essentially, you're saying you think he could be getting more out of this roster by trying something else. Or you think when things aren't working- the coach should try something else.

    So what happens if he tries something else and it still doesn't work? Is it still his fault? When do we look at the players?

    The comparisons you're making, outside of Spaletti, involve managers with squads/options/funds in different stratospheres compared to current Roma.

    Conte had a plethora of exceptional CB's and wanted a formation that utilized that and accentuanted Bonucci's qualities/hid his defensive deficiencies. Never mind the other quality in the squad. Do we have that? Conte is being called "too rigid" at Chelsea right now , by the way.

    Pep is a tactical genius , but also had quality/depth/options and the money to get star players that specifically fit his philosophies. Do we have that?

    Ancelotti has been labelled as a "players managers" why exactly? Because of his tactical versatility? Or because he can develop relationships and motivate star players? Do you think he wasn't criticized at Bayern for being "too limited"? Because he was. The players, in fact , held their own secret training sessions behind his back because they weren't gaining anything from him.

    Mourinho has been criticized for squandering promising youth, alienating management, creating internal conflict and destroying a team's creativity. You know what United fans have been saying about him? He's too rigid. He's too defensive. He's not creative enough." He plays Fellani too much , he won't start Martial". He also has had insane money to spend and has squads with tons of options and stars. Do we have that?

    When Spalletti arrived he had a 28 year old Totti (which EDF has nothing close to having on his roster) and made plenty of tactical decisions. But guess what?
    He still missed the Champions League spot (match fixing scandal got them in).

    Then, when he came back , he made a lot of crucial , and important tactical choices that helped propel the team. But , he had Salah ,Rudiger etc, didn't incorperate anything close to the youth EDF has , and we didn't do shit in the Champions League (nor did we win a single trophy).

    So , you can complain that EDF is "limited" and maybe you're right. Or we could just give the guy a RW and some players that fit his system and let him prove himself.

    Because, maybe the best solution for a club that can't go out and buy players star players on whim , is to actually create a formation/philosophy/ethos that is consistent and "rigid". Everyone knows how Atletico is going to set-up tactically , everyone knows what Tottenham is going to do. Those managers had time to develop their beliefs and philosophies. They had time to develop their academies under their beliefs , they targeted talented youth and moulded them into "Spurs" or "Atletico" players , why can't we do that?

    In the end, you could be right, EDF may not be the right manager for Roma. But he deserves more time.
     
  12. mancini30

    mancini30 Member+

    Jul 20, 2014
    Club:
    AS Roma
    EDF does has his fault.
    Strootman and Radja were wold class last year and all a sudden they beomce like the team's liability this year, wtf is going on?
     
  13. Big Bad Wolf

    Big Bad Wolf Member+

    Dec 17, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    The word is personnel lads, not 'personal'. Just saying.

    I have more issues with some of the players right now than I do with the coach. EdF deserves a full season.
     
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  14. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
  15. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plenty of blame to go around. EdF has made some bad decisions without a doubt. Monchi did a terrible job this summer. Palotta is not around enough to manage it all.

    At the end of the day it falls upon Palotta to get in a room with everyone and lay down the law.
     
  16. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep, Schick just reinforces my long held belief that Roma should never, ever, spend 20+ mil on a young player. Never! The risk is far too great and will haunt us for years.
     
  17. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's because Radja was playing more as an AM and this year he's been dropped back further.
     
  18. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  19. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Does anyone know where Alisson's punt landed after Zapata's goal? Madrid? Paris?

    He was so obviously pissed and frustrated. Can't blame him. The whistles and jeers after the final whistle were unrelenting. I can't blame the fans either. It's gotta be dark days in that locker room.
     
  20. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yea, that game was a bitter pill to swallow. Played awful in the first half but the 2nd half was some of the best I've seen them play in months. The problem is this team as zero confidence and many times finishing is the last thing to come back to a team lacking confidence.
     
  21. Roma_NY

    Roma_NY Member+

    Oct 19, 2009
    Washington, D.C.
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was when it rains it pours type of game. So many clear cut chances - Florenzi, Under, Dzeko, Pellegrini twice - that went begging.

    I also don't like the idea of pulling the plug on EDF mid-season, but I am warming to the idea. The thing is that this horrible stretch came when the schedule was light. We still have to play Milan, Lazio, Napoli, Juventus. We can't score. We have scored so few goals. Early on, a tight defense covered our flaws and we got a lot of clean sheets. But now we're exposed. The confidence is just rock bottom. Nobody knows where the goals will come from. There is no game breaking player like we used to have in Salah.

    I fear for this summer already. Dzeko will probably be sold. Allison is probably going to be the best GK at the World Cup and be sold for a record fee. Strootman? Nainggolan? Manolas? I can see all of them going for one reason or another.

    My only hope if we don't make the CL spots is that we can find a way to bring Conte in.
     
  22. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been one of Pallotta cheerleaders but I'm almost to the point I'd be ok if he sold. He has put us in a better financial position but his absence is leaving a huge leadership void.

    There is no direction, no semblance of building a team. Even with Monchi who is supposed to be the master of building a team this summer was nothing but a number of disjointed purchases. Gonalons, Moreno, Defrel & Schick together made no sense. There wasn't a single, undervalued young player in that group that Monchi made a career finding.
     
  23. Roma_NY

    Roma_NY Member+

    Oct 19, 2009
    Washington, D.C.
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Under looks like he will be a good player. He just needs time to find his footing in Italy. But yea, we thought we had so much depth but in reality even our starters are questionable. DDR is basically done. Bruno Peres has been horrible and is obviously being benched. I mean the logical solution to our hole at RW was to put Florenzi there and have Peres as RB. But Peres sucks so much he can't even make the pitch. Juan Jesus played well early on in the season, but yesterday he was a disaster. Moreno hasn't done anything to say he is good or bad. Gonalons was supposed to be dependable but its like he has never played before - dude was captain at Lyon! And finally Defrel. I don't care if he is being played out of position. He has been getting chances and he comes nowhere close to burying any of them.

    It just feels like this team is so out of balance, which is weird after we had that wonderful stretch where we beat Fiorentina, Chelsea and Lazio in like a week.
     
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  24. hangthadj

    hangthadj Member+

    A.S. Roma
    Mar 27, 2001
    Zone 14
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I think Pellegrini was probably our best player yesterday, but he even had a few plays that just exemplified the teams lack of confidence. One half shot/half chip that sailed 20 meters over the goal. One great chance that just didn't have enough power or placement to beat the keeper. And the one that sticks out the most is when he was set free on a half breakaway and instead of forcing taking his chance and forcing the keeper to make a save, he cuts it back to a in traffic Dzeko who puts a pathetic shot right at the keeper.

    It's just so painful to watch right now.
     
  25. Java65

    Java65 Member+

    Oct 2, 2012
    North Carolina
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There were probably 6-8 great chances and Roma either missed the target or put it center of goal for easy save. The one where Under hit Viviano in the face then the ball went to SES who put it wide was 2 missed chances.
     

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