Maybe it's time to stop saying MLS is "improving"

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by MisterJawn_215, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, Rubin spent a year with a Timbers-affiliated youth club (though not the Timbers academy proper) just before going to Europe.
     
  2. Kejsare

    Kejsare Member+

    Portland Timbers
    Mar 10, 2010
    Virginia
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When he left there was almost no proper MLS-Timbers academy, only affiliates. Even Brent Richards, signed in 2012 never played for a true Timbers academy, but was on Gavin Wilkinson's (Timbers GM) youth club. MLS "grandfathered" him in.
     
  3. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Zack Steffen 23 (Philadelphia Union)
    Bill Hamid 27 (DC United)
    DeAndre Yedlin 24 (Seattle Sounders)
    Matt Miazga 22 (New York Red Bulls)
    Erik Palmer-Brown 20 (Sporting KC)
    Jorge Villafaña 28 (Chivas USA)
    Wil Trapp 25 (Columbus Crew)
    Shaq Moore 21 (FC Dallas)
    Cristian Roldan 22 (Seattle Sounders)
    Marky Delgado 22 (Chivas USA)
    Tim Weah 18 (New York Red Bulls)
    Tyler Adams 19 (New York Red Bulls)
    Rubio Rubin 22 (Portland Timbers)
    Eric Lichaj 29 (Chicago Fire)
    Others
    Bobby Wood 24
    Andrija Novakovich 21
    Darlington Nagbe 27
    Cameron Carter-Vickers 20 (England nat.)
    Kenny Saief 24 (Israel nat.)
    Antonee Robinson (England nat.)
     
  4. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched an English league Two playoff game tonight. Based on that I think USL is a higher standard.
     
  5. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've watched MLS since 1996, though I only started following a specific team in 2000 when I moved from Houston to LA for college. I've gone to most of Sacramento Republic's USL home games and a few Open Cup games.

    And when MLS streamed its inaugural match on the 20th anniversary, I watched it and it confirmed the opinion I already had.

    MLS had a few big stars in 1996, but the rank-and-file USL player today is better than the rank-and-file MLS player in 1996. The average starting fullback in the USL today has better first touch under pressure than many MLS strikers and wingers in the 90s had under no pressure. Even with their stars, I think only three or four MLS teams from 1996 would be expected to make the USL playoffs in 2018.
     
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  6. Footsatt

    Footsatt Member+

    Apr 8, 2008
    Michigan
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #81 Footsatt, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
    10 years of stats to prove that MLS has improved. Semi finalists in the CCL since 2008:

    2008/09 = ZERO MLS
    2009/10 = ZERO MLS
    ---—--------- before here zero MLS teams made it to the semis
    2010/11 = 1 MLS
    2011/12 = 1 MLS
    ---------------- before here only 1 MLS team made it
    2012/13 = 2 MLS
    2013/14 = ZERO MLS
    2014/15 = 1 MLS
    2015/16 = ZERO MLS
    ------------------- before here only 1 year had 2 MLS
    2016/17 = 2 MLS
    2017/18 = 2 MLS

    There were couple setbacks in 2014 and 2016, but the last 2 CCLs have been decent with 2 MLS semifinalists.
     
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  7. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    People (especially Brits) used to say that MLS was the equivalent of League One (D3).

    Today I think USL is as good (or bad) as League One.
     
  8. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe expanding on my point above: I think one of the most telling things in the development of a soccer country is the technical ability of its fullbacks. One of the reasons MLS was so poor in the early years was the relative lack of attacking threat from overlapping fullbacks, which made teams predictable going forward.

    That's where the US player pool has seen the most improvement. Looking at the 1996 MLS rosters... James Kiffe, who has spent his entire pro career in the USL so far (Reno this season and Sacramento previously), would be the best attacking left back in MLS in 1996, and a top-3 all-around left back.
     
  9. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A few years ago I read here that MLS salaries are in between League Championship and League One.
     
  10. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was it before they introduced Targeted Allocation Money ($1.2m per year) and Discretionary Targeted Allocation Money ($2.8m) which could have doubled the number of players earning >$500k.

    Anyway

    Average comp MLS - $373,525 (top heavy)
    Average salary EFL Championship - $648,938.04
    Average salary League One - $90,423.29

    If you happened to take out the 8 lowest earners at each MLS club representing reserve and supplemental players, the average total comp becomes $527,715 (median $202,000)

    Also, I'd suggest Championship players tend to be overpaid while MLS players tend to be underpaid. But that's just my gut feel.
     
    EvanJ repped this.
  11. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doubled from one to two?
     
  12. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're kidding yourself if you think there are only two players in MLS earning more than $500,000. In the chart of salaries on the Players Association website, I just counted 125 of them.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    24 in 2014
    125 in 2018
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if what I said was before TAM. Given what you said, it's easy to be in between League Championship and League One considering League Championship averages over 7 times as much.
     
  15. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just making a joke. It’s a positive development.
     
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  16. Roger Allaway

    Roger Allaway Member+

    Apr 22, 2009
    Warminster, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My bad. Sorry. I'm not good at detecting sarcasm, and I'm sure that there are people out there who really do believe that there are only two.
     
    neems repped this.
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes it's interesting because if you actually compare the standard of Championship and MLS games I don't think it's that different. Tactically, MLS teams tend to try and pass the ball from end to end whereas Championship teams are much more direct.

    But it seems ridiculous that a mid-table team like Norwich can afford 15 players earning > $1 million yet are not carrying any significant debt.
     
  18. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They get good attendance by League Championship standards. They were 21st in England in average attendance including all levels. In 2014-2015 they won the promotion playoff, and they were 16th in England in average attendance.
     
  19. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta love those EPL Parachute Payments..........if they don't make it back to the EPL next season, their roster will likely see an overhaul. Aston Villa's roster will have a fairly serious makeover this off season as there parachute payments are ending.

    Those parachute payments are worth MORE than the US TV deal that MLS has.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Premier-League-parachute-payments-review.html
     
  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It looks like Grealish is set to go and Terry will move on (hopefully not to MLS).
     
  21. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    The idea that a league (any league) is not improving is dead wrong to me. I think over the years the quality of the game we love improved around the world.

    Maybe the rate of improvement of MLS isn't as fast as before (law of diminishing returns?) or the "gap" isn't narrowing as some fans expected. But I don't see how MLS stoped improving...

    Zlatan made a comparison between MLS and EPF which is spot on IMHO notice that he think MLS is improving.

     
  23. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not in Eastern Europe, where some of the best players in the world used to play, mainly because they weren't allowed to leave their country without a swarm of Stasi (or equivalent) agents around them.
     
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