Match thread: Netherlands vs Ireland, Poland and Austria.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, May 27, 2016.

  1. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Here are some keeper stats.
    Not sure how this lines up as I just pasted from google sheets. I like to keep stats in a spreadsheet but do not know how to share properly..

    GK - 1 Born club GP GA CS GAA CSA
    Stekelenburg 82 Southampton 25 30 9 1.20 0.30
    Vorm 83 Tottenham 7 8 1 1.14 0.13
    Vermeer 86 Feyenoord 40 43 14 1.08 0.33
    Krul 89 Newcastle 9 18 1 2.00 0.06
    Cillessen 90 Ajax 44 33 21 0.75 0.64
    Zoet 93 PSV 44 40 18 0.91 0.45
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    What do the acronyms stand for?

    Maybe a screenshot is the easiest, if they stand together.
     
  3. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Good idea, it is attached here.

    GP games played
    GA goals against
    CS clean sheets
    GAA goals against average
    CSA clean sheets average

    Wish I was able to find the shots against, to compare with goals against. A little more accurate..
     

    Attached Files:

  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    Thanks. It is still not nuanced enough though. These stats do not bring forward the actually skill. Bad defense and a keeper will be scr*wed over. I once saw a game of Newcatsle vs Chelsea where Krul conceded 3 or 4 goals. It was still one of his best performances ever.
     
  5. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Agreed, of course these do not tell the whole stories of a player - still must consider many things like club, league, teammates, managers, position styles, etc etc etc...

    It is only a nice snapshot of form/performance, and sometimes it can show you some funny things.

    For example, for CMs, no one seems to be big on Klaassen in here (myself included), but there he is with the most goals, goals per game and point per game.. Hahaha



    image.jpeg

    Note: van Ginkel's stats do not include Stoke matches (21 games played with no goals or assists). You're welcome Marco.

    And 6, 8s and 10s all included..
    Acronyms probably obvious besides:
    P points (added goals and assists)
    GPG goals per game
    PPG points per game

    I like the points stat, in fact I wish 'second assists' were given as well!

    Any requests to add players in, sort it other than age, or building one for a different position then let me know..
     
  6. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Should probably break the 'Games Played' number apart, separated to 'Games Started' and 'Substituted In' at some point... sigh..
     
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    He played a different role at Stoke. He did not have the freedom to move up as with PSV. Then van Ginkel becomes a mediocre player as his passing is boring as hell. So you did right not to include those game.

    Yes from these stats we see van Ginkel having serious output. Far more than Bazoer. I think van Ginkel being left out is just plain weird. Klaassen is just another "modern" midfielder that can not pass a ball. I don't dislike him. He can be of use, but he will not bring us to the next level.

    Anyway, some time ago was quite deep into stats. There are now many sites going for complicated stats. This one is a website I used to read:

    http://11tegen11.net/

    There is statsbomb and many others. Maybe you already know them. I wonder if they have solved the keeper thing.
     
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  8. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    cant get his Propper at #10. Seriously? I don’t see any difference between him and Klaassen.

    For No 10

    Tjaronn Chery
    Daley Sinkgraven
    Marco Asensio

    Don't think will get a chance both at Real and Spain with the current midfielders around.
     
  9. Dutch Treat

    Dutch Treat Member

    May 6, 2005
    Amsterdam|Alphen a/d Rijn
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Heard on Studio Sport that Bazoer is a certainty to start about every game. I can't remember the name of this clown probably because I can't stand him. Vermeulen?

    I am certain Bazoer has a lot of potential. But he shouldn't be a certainty if he can't at least show something in return for it. Wijnaldum, Strootman and v. Ginkel should all be ahead of him but fielding those three would not be a balanced midfield. We are 1 good DM away from being a good team atm.
     
  10. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #260 Sybe Pals, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    @wilson00 -

    Good call, I missed Sinkgraven, here it is again with him included. I'm sure you know he is only 20 so maybe one day, but, has never scored since moving to Ajax and only 2 assists in 24 games this season.

    Chery was already on the list. I could understand the call, but 28 now and since he is only on QPR in the championship he would probably need to find some pretty ridiculous form to get it. He had a few weeks of pretty good form this season..

    Asensio - just played his first match for Spain the other day so not adding him

    image.jpeg
     
  11. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I don't hate Cillessen, but I feel that Zoet is a better goalkeeper this year. I don't hate Blind either. He is a good versatile and smart player that can be very useful, although it is tough to put him into a starting spot as he does not excel at one postion. It is good to have a competition again for starting spot based on form and fitness. "Always earned, never given". Looking forward toward WC 2018 qualification.
     
  12. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    My observations from the recent friendlies... most, if not all, are already covered...

    1. Zoet is breathing on Cillesen's neck. With a year of UCL experience and a strong Eredivisie campaign, I would not be surprised if Zoet is taking over the no. 1 jersey in a year's time. He's a very confident fella and capable of making great saves. Cillesen is more or less a Stekelenburg to me... very serviceable keeper, but it doesn't infuse a ton of confidence in players and fans alike.

    2. Van Dijk is really making a case for himself. Probably the most pleasant takeaway for me from these friendlies. I like how VDV bring the physicality to the game, but more importantly, he is very comfortable on the ball and can help in the build up. If he improves his focus and concentration (i.e. less sloppy mistakes), dare I say that he will be the defensive anchor for Oranje in years to come. Too bad that Daley wasn't able to participate.. I'd love to see the combo of Blink/VDV gets playing time. Blind, in spite of his lack of speed and muscles, brings the intelligence and stability in the back four.

    3. Strootman and Wijnaldum is an interesting duo in midfield. The second most surprising thing for me is how seamless Strootman integrated himself to the team... Obviously he did look rusty and was considerably slow (he's not too fast to begin with!), but it was encouraging to see him able to circulate the ball and gets his teammates involved. I hope he gets back to the full fitness and realizes him massive potential. I am warming up on Wijnaldum.. I will never see a traditional "no. 10" in Gino, but I am quite okay with that, as long as he brings the goals and assists on consistent basis (plus his energy and work ethic hopefully will be contagious to the team). Also, with Blind in the back and Stroot sits in a deeper role, perhaps that's enough orchestrating and playmaking that can be had so that Gino can concentrate what he does best (i.e. making late runs to the box). I like to see Van Ginkel completes the midfield trio, he brings much more dimension to the team than Bazoer.

    4. Attack is still a huge question mark. Encouraged with the recent ascendancy of Janssen. Not convinced he's the answer.. jury is still out for me. I really like how he holds up the ball very efficiently, finishing is an area to improve (becoming more deadly in front of goal). Same with Promes, looks promising at times, but also wasteful on occasions. Depay is a kid with bottom-rock confidence. Berghuis and Narsingh are good enough for scrap minutes. Need more sparks upfront.. maybe guys like El Ghazi or Boetius.
     
  13. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Spot on DT and that guy is Nathan Ake. I mean if you look at what LVG did with Kyut at the WC. I'm not saying Ake is Kyut but given Ake's versatility dont know why he was not selected in the team. LB,LCB,DM. Bit disappointed that again Issue surrounding DM has not been resolved. Blind should have tested him in these friendlies.

    Wijnaldum/ Vilhnea
    Strootman /Van Ginkel
    Bazoer/ Ake

    Once againAke's versatility and experience =< Bazoer's raw talent.
     
  14. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    As it is I would still leave the doors open for these players


    Riccardo Kishna
    Anwar El Ghazi
    Memphis Depay
    Daley Sinkgraven
    Nathan Ake
    Jerry St Juste
    Jordy clasie
    Alexander Buttner
    Wesley Hoedt
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes, 1 request, to sort it out for PPG. Want to see my boy Marco on top. :D
     
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  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    No it is Lartey. Got that idea from Rinus, but he could be a killer there. My favorite up and coming youth player, even over Nouri. I hope Peter Bosz sees it and tries him out there.
     
  17. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You think
    Do you think they will be ready in two years time or come the qualifiers.look at how Bazoer is lagging.?
     
  18. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Wijnaldum- Janssen- Promes

    Van Ginkel-Ake- Strootman

    Buttner- Van Dijk- Bruma- janmaat

    Zoet
     
  19. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He can do what Tete did. I have read that he was benched quite some time for some reason, but I have always liked him in every game he played. He can also play CB, but he has no impressive length. I really hope Bosz sees it in 1 time, or maybe I am overrating Larteys passing ability. There is a reason why he is played CB in youth, not more to the front. However I think he should be tried as DM.
     
  21. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Do you have Promes there over Robben or is this in case Robben is injured?

    Why are you so big on Buttner? What games made you like him?
     
  22. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think the focus here should be the world Cup.OK agree he should be tried out at DM but again you think about with current Ajax midfield I doubt he will be able to break into the first team.

    As for Tete, there is a downfall of playing a defender like him who is only defensive minded. Remember this dual. I think it was Euro 2000. Zenden vs Zambrotta.one of the finest right back for itlay and one finest wingers for NT. Ending up getting red card. Just couldn't contain Zenden. In big games you expect this to happen with Tete because of his defensive qualities.
     
  23. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yes I'm putting Robben and Sneijder out of the equation so that even if there are around or no it won't affect the team.

    Buttner vs Bayern
     
  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    I don't see a red card for him in over 8500 minutes:

    Link

    I agree he is not back against minnows. Then Janmaat makes more sense. However the heavier the opponent, the more obvious a choice for Tete becomes. Especially in the state we are in.
     
  25. He still goes far too fast to the ground to tackle. That's a particularity of him I dislike. It points to not anticipating what is going to happen. Like his speed and physicality though.
     

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