Match thread: Netherlands vs Ireland, Poland and Austria.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, May 27, 2016.

  1. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What about Nathan Ake. Apart from strootman who is still on the road to recovery.Akes versatility and experience is =< any other midfielder right now.. Defensive I mean. Klaassen was waste of time,Bazoer also looks like will be the same case.Propper looks like another klaassen .

    Blind should have gambled with Ake in this friendlys.Though he hasn't played at DM but his experience and versatility is where he could have made the difference.

    I'm jus wondering if doesn't get to play DM at club level,will Danny continue to ignore him.
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Who is your first choice?
     
  3. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #228 wilson00, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    Credibility as a coach- in the best interest of the team (all rounded LB) rather then just trying to fit his son jus because he Plays for Man United.

    Alexender Buttner - without a doubt -package deal. The energy that he brings into the game cannot be matched by any LB at the moment. Its jus that he has been caught in a club crisis.
     
  4. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    So, I have seen some comments of Newcastle fans today and I get a whole other picture. They say he only played 3 or 4 very food games, but was bad in many others. Actually that he disappeared. Now I can relate to that. Also the waiter put him on the bench at a certain moment. So that he had such a good season is not true (though, not sure anybody claimed such a thing). Wijnaldum does score his goals here and there, but is a ghost for so many games for club and country.

    So actually there are 2 weird choices of Blind in midfield. Bazoer and Wijnaldum.
     
  5. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Good 2-0 win.
    First clean sheet for us with Blind, just took 10 games!
    Well done, again we were really good at times. Another small improvement to Poland but I still want more. Also I expected better from Austria, they seem pretty poor to me.. just highlighting how shitty it is that we are not at the euros.

    Zoet was great until injured, 3 or 4 outstanding saves. Hopefully ok from that knock. Cillessen fine, but why not give Vermeer a chance? Maybe he didn't have gloves, Cillessen did not even have his shoes on.
    PVA not noticed except for a couple sloppy giveaways first half and a great pass for Promes building up to Wijnaldums goal.
    Not really tested, which is maybe good on him!
    van Dijk very tidy again.
    Bruma good defensively, seems apprehensive on the ball and so forward decisions not always the best.
    Tete winner of a great competition v annoying Arnautovic.
    Strootman Bazoer a bit sloppy to start, esp Strootman, and lucky a great Zoet save bailed them out. I think they got better though, and again not scored against. Bazoer I think was a little bit better each game, not 100% convincing yet for me but doesn't give the ball away much at least. Hopefully midfield lineup is Strootman - van Ginkel - Sneijder/ Pröpper anyway and Blind takes the opportunity to give his depth some minutes.
    Wijnaldum more or less anonymous in a 10 until the great shot for his goal. van Ginkel came on for Strootman and finally Vilhena comes on for Bazoer, but not much time to judge to me more or less pointless subs although maybe an agreement with Roma.
    Berghuis on RW did not really test Fuchs. He was not bad and I really don't understand the praise on him, but happy for another assist, if that one counts as an assist, which probably keeps him above Memphis. Good attitude, and he told Fox Sports that he will not give up on Watford despite his lack of game time last season so I wish him well.
    Promes on LW should work on his finish, should have had at least one goal, but lively and always making the RB work. Should have had an assist for that van Ginkel chance as well. Still completed more dribbles and crosses than any player in the match.
    Currently the best of our wingers, if Robben is out.
    Janssen great, tough header to make although unmarked always working hard and making runs. Hopefully not injured bad. He is the first player with 3 goals in his first 5 Netherlands games since van Hooijdonk in 1997. And that's 25 goals in 24 games for him in 2016.
    Also after the match he admits he wants a transfer: "I want to make a step up, that is clear. England? We will see."
    And so begins a miserable euros without Oranje ... hopefully a summer of vacation during serves to motivate and strengthen their resolve to be ready for Sweden.
    Really need to hit the ground running with only Greece friendly Sept 1 between us and that first WCQ v Sweden on Sept 6.
    I do appreciate that we used a pretty consistent lineup style.
    I imagine we will line up the same as we saw today and thankfully/hopefully with an attacking intent, even if it is counter attacking rather than possession football, and maybe with just a few minor personnel changes:
    Robben>Berghuis
    Willems>van Aanholt
    Sneijder>Wijnaldum
    depending on fitness of the older players
     
  6. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Huh??! How so??

    Blind played at LB for a bunch of games at world cup 2014 no problem.
    He played well against Spain too. He's not outstanding at LB, but he can certainly hold his own. For you to suggest we wont qualify for WC2018 because Blind is playing LB is a bit absurd, sorry
     
  7. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Just to repeat that header by Janssen wasnt as easy as it looked because he was really close to the keeper. Many other strikers wouldve headed it right at the keeper, but Vincent let the ball glide off his head, into the ground and in for a goal. Considering its only Janssen's 5th cap it was a cool finish

     
  8. Laurent75

    Laurent75 Member

    Aug 2, 2014
    I couldn't watch last games cause I'm enjoying some holidays abroad but good thing to have won against two decent teams, even if only friendlies.

    The only thing that makes me nervous is the Wijnaldum choice...Why all dutch coachs keep playing him as an attacking midfielder while even the Newcastle uses him as LM ? How could Berghuis start two games for Oranje while Wijnaldum could take that spot and make another midfielder to start ?

    The midfield is a problem, Holland doesn't have a real good DM and no good 10 neither.
     
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    FWIW, here are my thoughts from the recent friendlies.

    Keeper - probably Cillissen's to lose
    LB - no really good option right now based on those who have been in the mix: Blind, van Aanholt, Willens. All are flawed in one way or another. I haven't seen much of Pieters at the club level and don't know how Buttner has been doing. Dijks of Ajax has been on the preliminary list a couple of times but not called up. Flip a coin and pick a player is probably what will happen.
    LCD - van Dijk has secured this spot
    RCD - I'll be blunt, I've never fancied Bruma from his days with the U-21 team. If de Vrij is healthy, he is my choice. Veltman is a second choice at best.
    RB - Tete has secured the position
    MF - pick any three and you will have a flawed midfield. There are just not any standouts right now. Will Snjeider be considered? Bazoer is a train wreck right now (yes I'm also an Ajax supporter and have been critical of him in the 2nd half of the season). Too many careless fouls and too slow on the ball. I don't think Strootman is fully recovered from his injury, but if he is it's too bad because he has really lost the speed he had a couple of years ago. Wijnaldum is great in the penalty box and finds a way to score goals but a MF needs to do so much more than that. I eat my words that I posted a couple of weeks ago!!!! --- van Ginkel is the best MF prospect based on performance (though he really should have scored on that header). Gifted a chance to play yesterday, Vilhena looked quite bored with the proceedings, not the kind of behavior one wants. Klaassen (not called up for the recent games) can only run all game long and that's it; no really good ball skills. Propper is too slow. Clasie is a big ??????? Are there any other MFs that I've missed??
    Attack - Janssen is the starting #9 with de Jong and Dost as the back ups. Robben will start if healthy. Promes showed that he is the best winger other than Robben. Berghuis delivered three great crosses that I counted but that was it, he doesn't have the speed to beat any defender. Narsingh will be considered because he gives 110% every match and has the speed that Berhuis lacks. Memphis needs to sort a lot of stuff out and will probably be with a different club this coming season as Martial and Rashford are the starters at ManU.

    Vlaar will be the Andre Oojier of this team, a capable defensive sub. Zoet and Vermeer will be the other GKs.

    The defense, despite having some issues on set pieces will be one of the better lineups the Dutch have fielder. If Robben is health for the next two years, the front line will do OK. As with everyone else, I worry about the MF and don't know what can be done other than to hope that Nouri has a great U-19 tournament this summer, gets a starting position at Ajax and an early start with the NT as did van der Vaart and Snjeider before him!!!!:p

    Are there any players I've missed???
     
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  10. richsavare

    richsavare Member

    Jan 28, 2003
    New Jersey
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #235 richsavare, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
    Lots of food for thought here. Obviously it's great that Oranje has gotten some positive results, that said I don't believe these 3 recent opponents are anything special especially Poland and Austria despite their respective qualification records and form.
    Blind will stay on as Manager for now and I know that makes everyone so happy however he has decisions to make with the selection.
    What a liked about the last 2 matches despite being far from perfect was that Oranje showed better with their effort and speed of play which had been recently missing.
    If the team plays in a counter attacking way all the time I am not sure this will work as tactics need to vary, and although lacking the needed quality Oranje should try to boss the play against some opponents, the problems of recent times have been slow reactions in covering defensively and a lack of speed in play and movement and dynamic play at that.
    I think we saw better improvement in those areas at times these past 2 games.
    I know only friendlies but these were serious matches for all with start of Euros and certainly Poland and Austria have some worries to sort out.
    I will be curious to see what Daddy does with his son? He is slow and unathletic, but he is good on the ball and that is an important quality.
    In goal i say go with Zoet as Cillessen to me concedes too many goals and his mentality is weak. I too would have liked to see Vermeer but I guess no runout for him does not bode well for #1 shirt.
    Blind should have benched Cillessen long ago. Don't see anything special with him. In the back Bruma wore armband vs Poland has to mean he is guranteed place, but I am not sure about him. Just shaky at times and has switched off as well in certain matches. Will he move to Inter?
    Van Dijk great season in EPL but he too has not been clean in his play either. I lean towards Virgil over Bruma.
    What about De Vrij? He had some rough moments too. Lack of pace in the back for any defender is a scary thing. When healthy I would think he won't be in the reckoning straight away, but who knows how highly rated he may be in the Coaching staffs eyes?
    Veltman or Tete at rightback who knows how he goes with that you would think it's Tete as Veltman is not a natural rightback but this Coach thinks different. Perhaps Janmaat once he moves to a new team, but no more Van Der Wiel please.
    Perhaps the young Fosu Mensah is one to watch. For a central role or on left maybe Lazio's Wesley Hoedt. Will BMI ever be considered again?
    Leftback is Willems for me as he adds much neended dynamic ability, but it could be sonny boy.
    Will PVA be called or Buttner, or Dijks or even Ake who I thought played well when I saw him play at Watford.
    Once again who knows?
    Midfield there are questions there too, but it's great to see Strootman back. Hopefully he gets back to his best form and fitness, but he is a leader, and the boss out there.
    Bazoer is obviously young but highly rated by many of the big clubs so maybe he continues to grow into the player they see and that Oranje certainly need.
    I like Wijnaldum but I understand the debate around him. Needs to be more of a presence, although I believe he can play in many roles, box to box, out wide, or even a false 9 as he is very athletic and makes good runs. These qualities have not been displayed enough due to a lack of speed in the Oranje play which has not helped bring out the best of him in my opinion along with his mental state of playing with the underachieving Newcastle.
    I say 100% no to the slow unathletic, and overrated Klassen. Same goes for Propper. Van Ginkel as a sub over them yes. Will Sneijder be back? I would think so, but who knows about this one either. Classie is what he is slow, weak, and unfit most of the time. Good on ball with good handling speed we know, but he is what he is. Maybe Fer if he can find a stable club is an option.
    Very happy with Janssen at the #9
    I wonder what happens to him after the Euros when the transfer activity is at its peak? He MUST play so he better make the right choice as his decision is crucial to Oranje.
    Quincy Promes is interesting to me I want to see his continued development at a bigger club, but for now he has an edge over the other wide players with the exception of our most feared player Arjen Robben.
    Robben when healthy is our only true World Class player incredibly and sadly. His resume, leadership, and quality speaks for itself, but his time is likely closing. That said I hope he finds form, fitness, and the fountain of youth and maintains his high standard of excellence.
    Luuk De Jong likely as a sub is not a favorite of mine. Just slow and lacks that dynamic feature that is needed.
    Huntelaar? Will he accept a likely continued sub role if called?
    Dost seems like a better fit and he is better then De Jong, but who knows? Obviously I hope for some new prospects to develop.
    Will Memphis get it together? Where will he go, how will get react to his very dire situation at ManU.
    Not a fan of Narsingh or Berghuis. I was completely shocked that the bench warmer at Watford even got called.
    Okay let's hope for some new young talent on every position to develop to get us back on the right track.
    At the very least the Coaching staff needs to grow and demand better of themselves and the players. Scout these games of Sweden and France to attack their weaknesses just as Van Gaal prepared for Spain. Oranje must clean up their lack of sloppy, mindless, slow, and unathletic play that we saw a lot of during the miserable qualification failure.
    Build on the better moments of the past 2 matches. Play with focus and attention to detail, with movement, speed and energy from all XI at ALL times.
    It will be a very painful next few weeks of the expanded Euros were incredibly no Oranje to see, but many shite minnows that I have absolutely no desire to watch.
    Oh the pain
    Please God bring Oranje back after this fall I pray.
     
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  11. Simmer

    Simmer Member

    Feyenoord
    Netherlands
    Oct 23, 2009
    Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not bad, we beat 4 teams who qualified for the EURO's at their own home in the last months.
    Still, never rely on friendlies. Main thing is they bring us important points on the FIFA rankings.

    Have to say I think Advocaat as assistant is very positive since he brings a lot experience Blind lacks.
     
  12. bunbohue

    bunbohue Member

    Apr 5, 2005
    I'd like to point out that perhaps this Austria game was the first time in a long time that no player is older than 27. We have hit the bottom so in a sense, there is no way but to go up. I have to accept that this team will play counter attack with less possession because of the quality of players/coaching that we have. Like it or not, we are in rebuilding mode. Unless we have better young players (quality + coaching + development) this is the new reality for Dutch team.
    It is also time for Zoet to be the starter. I still cannot shake off Cillessen' pk and other deficiencies that he has.
     
  13. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The Cillessen hatred rivals that Blind hatred on this forum. I find this quite funny. Cillessen had the best record among keepers in the Eredivisie this season and is the best of any NT keeper at distributing the ball and speeding up play. Yes, he is deficient on PKs but unfortunately he didn't get much game practice on this with Ajax this last season as they did not commit many fouls inside the box. If the NT defenders adopt the same approach then PKs only become important in knockout games and won't be a factor in the group play!
     
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Exactly. Now we have 2 keepers that are close, we should invest in a keeper that can stop a penalty. Zoet is better at this. Distribution of Zoet is meh, but Cillessen is not much better. Yesterday one of his first kicks was to hoof it all the way to the opponent keeper, no chance to run on it. I have seen a weak Zoet some time ago, but he is growing on me.
     
  15. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    And a team like Netherlands should prepare for that stage. That is what we know after Argentina that produced some savable penalties.

    It is not that Cillessen is bad. It is that Zoet has become a better keeper. A year ago the gap was clear, but now? Not so sure. Zoet has grown and has become champs of Eredivisie for a second time. He is the first keeper at that club. Do you think Zoet was bad against England and Austria?
     
  16. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  17. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    For the left, Bergwijn is going to compete next season in the first team. Could become an option soon if he wins the internal competition and stays healthy.
     
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  18. Sybe Pals

    Sybe Pals Member

    Oct 13, 2015
    Comox, BC
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    And what about Krul, once fit again?
    How do you guys see him compared to Cillessen and Zoet?

    Personally I'm fine with either Cillessen or Zoet. I like Cillessens footballing abilities, but I feel Zoet may make saves Cillessen does not.
    Although what Orange14 says above about Cillessens stats record is true he was only marginally above Zoet.
    One thing I like in a keeper is when they get pissed off or have a little freak out when a goal gets passed them, I love that fire.. Krul wins in this regard he has so much personality, and if he returns to his past form I think he is my #1.
     
  19. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Zoet is fine but Cillessen is a better overall keeper other than the PK issue. He was far better during this past league season. Zoet conceded some easy goals against teams PSV should not have lost to. Cillessen is the Dutch #1 right now.
     
  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Krul is a good shot blocker but Vermeer is the best shot blocker of all of them (Vermeer is deficient in all other aspects of the game). I don't know what Krul's future is. Benitez is staying on at Newcastle and will try to bring them back up to the EPL. How many first team players stay on in this effort? It's not going to be like Juve when they were sent down because of the match fixing scandal and the core of the team rallied and stayed (the great mercinary Zlatan was on the first train out of town!!!). If Krul stays he will have lots of game time as there are 24 teams in the championship plus the League and FA Cups to contend for. We should quickly know whether he is back in form. I don't know whether any of the EPL teams need a keeper badly enough to sign him.
     
  21. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Where are the stats you draw these conclusions from? Is there any comparison sheet or evaluation of their respective seasons?
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    He's on the U-19 team that plays for the Euro championship in July (as is Fosu-Mensah!!). We'll see how he does against that competition. He had three goals in the qualification run.
     
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  23. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    The distribution of Krul makes my eyes bleed. He literally invites pressure. Well, with the new raction football model, that might actually work. Allows us to counter faster again. :D
     
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  24. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Exactly. We have succeeded only with 1 model against oke-ish opponents. I can see us deploying this against France. Fine and maybe we get a draw or lucky win on our day. We will see. However, this model and ingraining it into players will make us less equipped to win against minnows. We do not hone our ability to make the game that is demanded when they stay back and play reaction football.

    So then the question becomes: Has Blind opted for short term success to lead us on a road that makes minnows bigger hurdles? Thus making qualification dangerous? We can win a game against Sweden to still become third in the group by losing against the smaller teams.
     
  25. Zoet is chosen as the goalie of the CL 2016 teams:
    www.vi.nl/.../finalisten-domineren-sterrenteam-uefa-opta-kiest-zoet.htm
     
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