Match 62: CRO : ENG - CAKIR (TUR)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by balu, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Was he going to caution Lovern there and then forgot?
     
  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, that's not my point. Not even close.

    My point is that if you do a VAR experiment for 2 years in one manner, and then you change it a couple weeks into the World Cup because you realize "oh crap, this is a problem," then something is wrong. It's not like the experiment honed everything to get to the point we are at now three months ago. It's a true bait and switch. Geiger's use of VAR at this World Cup has been night and day from the way it has been used in MLS.

    We're never going to agree on this so it's not worth debating again and again and again. But if VAR was actually ready for prime time, there'd be more than five referees in the world trusted with being a VAR on a knockout match and, well, they'd be trusted to actually make affirmative recommendations.
     
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  3. Count Chocula

    Count Chocula Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    couple free shoves after the whislte by Croatia go unpunished
     
  4. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    It is shocking that Lovren doesn't have a yellow yet. I might have given him three.
     
  5. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    How the f#ck is Lovern not in the book yet?
     
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  6. mathguy ref

    mathguy ref Member+

    Nov 15, 2016
    TX
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Lovren is going to continue to behave this way as long as Cakir let’s him.
     
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  7. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    This is among the best that Europe has to offer the world? But MLS.
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Not in this WC it isn't
     
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  9. Count Chocula

    Count Chocula Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    play to the whistle, engerlanders
     
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  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not even sure the call is wrong. We only get the replay from the near side of the field, where it looks like the defender likely kept Kane onside. We are talking inches either way and an angle from the opposite side might show Kane visible and therefore, offside. It was close. Probably onside, but close.

    The idea that this is a "horrible call" is silly. Look at the Frank Anderson call in Germany-Korea. Most of us thought at first glance that the player was actually in an onside position. But VAR confirmed that Anderson got that part (the offside position) correct. The naked eye with one still frame is not as trustworthy as you make it out to be.
     
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  11. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I'd suggest VAR is ready for prime time, but that it hasn't been used well in this tournament, frankly.
     
  12. Count Chocula

    Count Chocula Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    cant blame walker for needing a breather there...

    in a way that was a heroic header he made just after standing back up
     
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  13. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I'm trying to make sense of that. It's ready but the best refs in the world can't use it properly?
     
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  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you needed another four years to get more of the world accustomed to it and to get true worldwide standards of what "clearly wrong" and "clear and obvious" are. And you needed to train more referees. Personnel matters and only a few people have the experience--several of the specialists brought in to this tournament weren't trusted with being a VAR on a single match.
     
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  15. Count Chocula

    Count Chocula Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and England pays for conceding so much possession this half
     
  16. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Can't? no. I think that there's something to be said for the notion that the standards have been muddied or changed. The world's best refs are able to largely execute as instructed, but if the instructions aren't clear or are a mess, you've got a garbage in, garbage out problem resulting in a mess.
     
  17. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @code1390 , do you have a screenshot of the offside position/decision prior to the Croatian goal?
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    "High kick, ref, high kick!!"
     
  19. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    Dangerous play or fair goal?
     
  20. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    But if you come up with a system to make three things better, and it only makes one thing better, is it worth it?
     
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  21. BlueNosedRef

    BlueNosedRef Member

    Sep 5, 2011
    Never a foul. Good goal.
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    If the instructions aren't clear, I would submit it's not ready for prime time.
     
  23. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Both. :)
     
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  24. Count Chocula

    Count Chocula Member+

    May 7, 2010
    Cedar Falls, IA
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    depends on the costs (not just monetary)
     
  25. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    Fair all the way. Defender went down to head the ball, that’s on him.
     
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  26. Iforgotwhat8wasfor

    Jun 28, 2007
    Any thoughts on the high boot goal?
     

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