Come now. Robben dives and gets hit about equally the same. He's a great player, but he diminishes his reputation with his constant diving.
Don't try to put this on me. It is part of the FIFA Laws, I simply pointed it out. If a team claims that the GK is injured in some manner before/during the KFTM, doesn't a referee have to accept that and permit the substitution? Truly, what is a referee to do? Are you stating that you would make a ruling on the health of the keeper, or request medical personnel to do so, in an effort to deny the substitution?
What I said was that the Dutch almost waited too long before making the sub because they made it in stoppage time of extra time, and that this was risky because they almost missed out on making it--unless the ref knew they were waiting for the ball to go out before ending the game. How is that "patently ridiculous"? MrRC said it wasn't a big deal because the Dutch could have just said he was injured after the game. My point is that he didn't want to get subbed, so it seems unlikely that he would fake an injury. Of course he would come off when his number was on the board (because he did), but that's way different than saying he'd fake an injury to allow the sub too. You think if he refused to fake an injury he'd be "on the next plane back to Amsterdam?" I'd love to see that press conference.
WTF. Who said anything about playing doctor. I said it was cheating to pretend to be injured to get a sub. It is. FIFA, not the referee, would deal with it post-match if it desired, and I think it would result in a rule change (c.f. the MLS special subs for GKs). There is not a legal way to sub for an uninjured GK once the referee blows for full time. You seem willing to assume they would have cheated to get the sub on. Perhaps. But that is not an assumption I am jumping to. Nor is it relevant here, as they had him ready to be subbed with plenty of time so it was never an issue.
*Looks at the historical success of the Dutch* *Looks at the historical success of the other three remaining teams* Uh huh. Good luck with that reasoning.
So? Regardless of my perspective, I can still be right, can't I? Discrediting a poster is a weak response. Should all fans of teams just stay quiet? Please be a little bit more substantial. Do you disagree with Robben being hit a lot?
Forget about history, we are talking about one game. Do you think he dove a lot during the CR game, or was he hit more? That's what he was complaining about.
You know, I don't get this, why so much anti-Robben sentiment? He is one of the best and most entertaining players this World Cup. Yes, Robben does dive sometimes, that's annoying. He embelishes too, but well, that is part of the game - sometimes you need to make clear there was a foul. But he also gets hit an awful lot, and they are sometimes vicious hits. Against Mexico a defender broke his own leg performing an illegal tackle (that was the penalty not given). Against Costa Rica 8 fouls were called, three yellows, there should have been a red card. He cannot complain about that? Should Robben just take the abuse? Did you guys not see what just happened to Neymar? Should the same just happen to Robben? That would be such a shame. Don't you guys see that embelishment and diving are the flip side of excessive fouling? PS Neymar has no problem diving himself, but nobody seems to care about that. SO does Fred, we have all seen that. Why the focus on Robben so much?
I think it is relevant, also for this discussion. Robben gets kicked in half two games in a row now, yet the discussion keeps going towards his diving. Why? Why are other players, just as much guilty of diving (it happens all the time), not treated that same way? I am not just talking about this thread, but about all the attention, the media, the discussions. I figure consistency from game to game should be an important topic in a board devoted to refereeing.
Because Robben has got a history... Back when he was at Chelsea he did go down easy and often and commonly enough without reason. He did simulate a lot, not just more than average but more than most even and he did so as a foreigner in a British league and thus he got a great big "diver" tag attached to him. And that reputation stays for a long time regardless if it is deserved or not by recent actions (IMO it isn't as Robben has cleaned up that side of his game quite a lot the last few years).
He dove a lot in that game. He dives a lot. He will dive again. Heck he admitted he dove and apologized for diving against Mexico. Come on now. Yeah other players dive including Neymar and Suarez. I agree embellishment is part of the game. That said, Robben routinely goes down from the slightest of contact. Contact that should not result in his going down as if he were violently tackled. Contact that a middle age person if contacted in such a way would barely acknowledge it or say excuse me. His behavior at times is so over the top that it's comical.
Partially it also looked that way because FIFA did not always show a replay. For example, he received a hand/fist in his face near the corner-flag (do you remember?) when he broke through, but no replay was shown of that.
The difference between diving and making a show of being fouled is very different. A dive is a blatant act that is done to deceive the official that some foul/contact had been made when NONE occurred. Making a show (or meal) of some contact may be embellishment, but in the end, there was a foul (or at least contact) and the player is under no requirement to keep going.
You answered your own question. And more importantly, it SHOULDN'T be a part of the game. Hence it falls under one of the cautionable offenses of Unsporting Behavior. Neymar/Brazil in general are just as disgusting to watch as players like Robben. They are disgraces to the game. No one is singling out Robben that also isn't disgusted by Neymar/Fred/any Brazilian player. Absurdly ironic if anyone considers Brazil as playing the 'beautiful game'. They may used to but now they are just a bunch of hacks because they don't have the tactical skills to keep up with better teams. Everyone remember the Brazil U17s standing around refusing to play for 5 minutes at last year's Nike Friendlies after the USA stomped them and they didn't like their red cards?
GDG, this is in no way meant to single you out, so please don't take it this way. But this general post has been in the back of my mind for awhile and I feel that it's finally necessary, so I'm using your quote above as the launching point. I hope you realize I'm not upset with you and others have been much more guilty of what I'm about to point out than you have; so again, please don't take this as being singled out. I think a lot of casual readers on this board love the referee forum--both this one and the regular one. The number of thread views and participation bear this out. But there is an undercurrent of belief from some that we unnecessarily close ranks around referees and show our own biases in some of our postings. To the first complaint, I have thought and still think it's absolutely ridiculous. We have no problem critiquing referees who miss big decisions or perform poorly. It's just that we're more likely to search for why something happened rather than just rail about how awful a referee is. Of course, that's sort of the point of the forum, so it makes complete sense. But the bias complaint has resonated more and more with me as the tournament has gone on. When fans come in here with their biases clearly showing, many of you complain or accost them. That's fine. I get plenty of requests asking for forum bans--again, your prerogative but we typically like the debate to run its course unless someone is completely out of control (you can probably remember 3-4 cases so far this tournament). But here's the problem... When the referees on this board are saying general things like "Brazil is a bunch of hacks" or "Robben is a diver" or "De Jong is a thug," etc., etc., etc., without linking something to a particular incident, it looks bad and it feels wrong. We tell non-referees to leave this forum if they want to engage in biased discussions, but then some of the words we choose--even if we believe them 100%---are subjective opinions regarding quality or style of football and have nothing to do with referee analysis. If a German fan came in here saying Brazil was a bunch of hacks, we'd send them on their way. Same goes if an Argentinian fan came in and started saying Robben was a diver. Yet some of us referees are regularly doing it now. This is directed at no one in particular. But I'm posting it now because as we reach the semifinals, things have seemed to get a lot more heated with opinions on the quality and merits of play reaching the forefront a lot more than referee analysis. There won't be any posts edited or deleted. This is just a general warning/reminder to stay on topic. Just as a biased fan is going to be told to take their complaints elsewhere, referees who want to talk about the quality or styles of play--unrelated to actual officiating, of course--are also going to be asked to post in the group or team forums. It's only fair and I hope that makes sense.