Match 57: URU : FRA - PITANA (ARG)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by balu, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    I know lawyers like to argue. If they didn't they'd be in a different profession, but you are being silly. In this tournament the vast majority of holding and grappling in the PA has gone uncalled. That's why people have joked about the obligatory "no more" lecture almost every referee has given on the first corner kick of the game. What has been called on several occasions is players being actually thrown (or ridden) to the ground. We have no reason to expect that this is going to change going forward, and to complain that it doesn't is nothing more than a waste of everyone's time.
     
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  2. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Oh, man--I remember watching Soccer Made in Germany with my dad
     
    chwmy and MrPerfectNot repped this.
  3. Ickshter

    Ickshter Member+

    Manchester City
    Mar 14, 2014
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Que??
     
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  4. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't offer an opinion.

    Someone pointed out to me that holding is one of the Law 12 fouls that doesn't include a level of force.
    If the act prevents the player from moving past or around, it's holding. if the player is able to move, then not.

    I offer no opinion as to whether any call should have been made in this game, because of the standard.

    I do think the standard needs to be a LOT tighter, starting July 16, 2018. CKs and DFks can be made without getting all handsy.
     
  6. chwmy

    chwmy Member+

    Feb 27, 2010
    With Kyle Rote Jr. They had commercials for subbuteo. I would have given my left hand for a subbuteo set.
     
  7. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could've sworn you already saw yourself out Mr. lawyer pants.

     
  8. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    oh, good. I was hoping you'd show so i can put you on the ignore list. Now this forum ought to be limited to the reasonable, constructive folks
     
  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Perhaps the personal comments can go away and we can discuss refereeing?
     
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  10. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's holding in the box on a corner? Shocked, I am, shocked.

    Some on this board are starting to sound like the they want soccer to be the National (American) Football League - if the referees in those games literally followed every rule in every instance, there would be flags on every play. There's always holding by the offensive line, there's seemingly always some kind of illegal contact between receivers and defensive backs - the refs have to use judgement and experience and guidance from the league to determine when do they need to be called, when are they so serious that they should not be ignored.

    As I think we all know, in Football / soccer as the games increase in sophistication, from U-5's to teens to adult, from amateur to professional - the type and number of fouls change and the refs must use judgement and experience and guidance from the "league", (in this case, FIFA) to call what needs to be called. A hold in the box that I might call as a free kick coming out (or as a PK) for U10 is very different from U16 Boys Elite, which is different from Men's Open Division amateur (the highest level I ref) which is different from the World Cup.

    To argue that there is a black-white definition of holding (or VC) that must be called the same way every match, every level, every competition and every situation is naive and attempts to set a standard that is unattainable and undesirable.
     
  11. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pitana handled his flare
    up very differently than Geiger. He stepped away, then isolated before showing cards. At first he was ignored... And I thought "oh no, this is about to go off the rails" but eventually he got the two players cautioned and the ball in play, and things settled. Geiger didn't have the option of stepping back, as he was the center of incident. But regardless, he also didn't try to isolate at either of the cautions he gave in those mass encounters (head butt and pk). Easier said than done, and isolating in all instances is over rated, but it could have served Geiger well... At least it did serve Pitana well.
     
  12. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I don't know that anyone is arguing for a black and white are kiddie level standard for holding. I think many of us (and I am one) believe that the standard for holding has become too permissive at top levels. What we have now is warnings not to do it, which are then ignored when they holding takes place 5 seconds later. And ignored so much that people are seriously arguing that an American-football tackle of the guy to whom the ball was going should not be called. This obviously cannot be fixed during the knockout stage of the world cup, but I think the game would greatly benefit if, after the cup, FIFA made clear to teams and referees that they expected blatant holding on CKs and FKs to be called. If the standard gets set, the holding will go down. Players are going to do what we let them--and every player knows that in this WC, anything goes on a CK unless it is an actual American-football tackle of the guy who was going to get the ball. That means a defender who doesn't hold the guy he is marking isn't doing his job. And that's not what I really want to watch.
     
  13. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    It is in Uruguay.
     
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  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    But as I mentioned previously it helps tremendously to have a large intimidating presence looking like a bouncer in a bar in a rough part of town, rather than for example a mild-mannered college professor, when dealing with mass confrontations and dissenting players.

    PH
     
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  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Advantage leading to goal in the WC--dream for a ref! [oops--wrong thread]
     
  16. Bubba Atlanta

    Bubba Atlanta Member+

    Mar 2, 2012
    Yep, Atlanta
    Club:
    Atlanta United FC
    @Law5 will give you some pointers.
     
  17. thearbiter

    thearbiter Member

    May 24, 2007
    Albucrackee
    Marcel YONAN?
     
  18. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    Respect is earned. There are a number of reasons players will start giving you respect:
    1. they've seen you before. Nobody starts off with respect just because you've got a badge and a whistle.
    2. you don't tolerate bad behavior. There are a number of ways to handle bad behavior, but you have to handle it, preferably in ways that stop the bad behavior.
    3. you don't show fear. I'm not short. I'm fun size. I'll still jump between two guys that are much bigger than I am, if they haven't started hitting each other yet.
    4. relax and don't worry about whether you are respected or not. If you're comfortable out there, bs-ing, in appropriate ways, with the players and/or coaches, doing the stuff that shows you understand the game, people will recognize that 'this guy's done this before.' I will suggest that intimidation is probably not going to be your most successful player management tactic, given your size. On the other hand, I assessed an early 20-something female referee, very, very short, doing a U-16 boys game. Afterwards, I praised her 'disdainful older sister' interaction with the players. She blew me away when she told me that she had deliberately adopted that demeanor for these boys and I can tell you that she had them eating out of her hand. So what approach can you use that will get this player to behave?
     
  19. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good ref, bad comb over. Thought he had a strong game.

    He seems an awful long way from the ball a lot though,seems to catch the fouls anyway....
     
  20. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just looked back at my predictions. Even with Germany screwing the pooch, looks like I got half the semi-finalists.

    I did not even remember I picked Bel over Bra!
     
  21. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #171 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jul 7, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    I have socks older than Neymar so Mbappe isn't the only young offender...
     

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