Match 47: GER v ITA - Kassai

Discussion in 'Euro 2016: Refereeing' started by lemma, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. lemma

    lemma Member

    Jul 19, 2011
    To those coming here to check....


    ....the penalty stutter step was fine. There was another full step after it.
     
  2. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    The German embiggened himself.
     
  3. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    I guess I don't appreciate those fine subtleties.
     
  4. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    And the half dozen players in the box by the time he actually kicks it?
    I'm fine with trifling there, but as long as we're getting technical....
    At least no one is going to argue about whether it was a penalty or not.
     
  5. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    According to the Laws of the Game, that is not a penalty, or even an infringement, since handball must be deliberate...however, according to the way the Laws of the Game are currently misinterpreted (anytime a hand/arm is is outside the frame of the body = deliberate intent), it was the correct call.

    But make no mistake, it was a case of "ball to hand", in which Chiellini headed the ball into Boateng's arm from six inches away and Boateng had zero time to react.

    Just like the incorrect call & yellow card against Aaron Ramsey in the Wales-Belgium match yesterday which was ball to thigh to arm....
     
  6. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    I have nothing to say to this, other than a sincere hope that you are not a referee.
     
    AlextheRef, IASocFan, AremRed and 7 others repped this.
  7. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    I am curious to hear from anyone what intent he might have had raising his arms like that that did not include the chance of changing the direction of the ball. It looked like basketball move.
     
  8. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The referee has been duped numerous times today.
    The amount of diving in this game is disgusting. Most have duped the ref. But sadly, those that didn't and were caught went unpunished
     
  9. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Duped again
    Just horrible
     
  10. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Certainly tactical
    Chellini should have gotten a second caution
     
  11. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does anyone know what he gave the free kick for after he got hit with the ball? Because I didn't see anything there.
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Total bullshit.
    This is embarrassing
    The substitution was crap
     
  13. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Technical embarrassment. ;)
     
  14. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What was wrong with the sub?
     
  15. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    #15 Sport Billy, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    He wasn't up at the time of the throw

    He allowed Italy to delay to get him on.

    Ball goes out for a throw at 119:28
    First indication of wanting sub is at 119:47 from an assistant
    Ref blows for sub at 119:53

    Ridiculous
     
  16. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    #16 mfw13, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    #1 - When a person jumps in the air, their arms naturally fly all over the place. That does not equal intent to handle...or is every player who jumps in the air to contest a cross or header without their arms behind their back intending to handle the ball?

    #2 - How could there possibly be intent when Chiellini headed the ball into his from six inches away and Boateng had no time to react?

    #3 - Rule 36 of the Laws of the Game states that it is an infraction if the player "handles the ball deliberately". Period. It does not say jumping in the air with your arms outside the frame of your body (the current interpretation) equals intent.
     
  17. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    I'm not a referee, but I hope you are not either, since you quite clearly do not understand Rule 36 of the Laws of the Game, which states that an infraction is committed if and only if when a player "handles the ball deliberately".

    Nowhere in the Laws of the Game does it say that jumping in the air with your arms outside the frame of your body equals intent to handle.

    Nowhere in the Laws of the Game does it say that having the ball headed into your arm from six inches away (i.e. ball to hand) is an infraction, as was the case in this situation.
     
  18. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member+

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    #18 Thezzaruz, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    Rule???
    36???


    I get that you think what you think but any referee that doesn't give that one would be crucified by everyone (players, media, fans and their assessing/controlling body alike).
     
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  19. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    That would be page 36 of some older versions of the Laws (see 2013-2014, for example).
     
  20. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    To continue my question on what is correct for the pre KFTM coin toss, did Kassai give both H/T calls to Germany?
     
  21. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    I didn't see any jump. What I saw was a defender standing with his arms up.

    I checked the online version to see if this had changed in the latest update. Still only 17, and they are called laws.
     
  22. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    That may be, but that's because a large majority of the media and fans are have never actually read the Laws of the Game. Still doesn't make it the correct call...

    The problem, as I alluded to in my previous posts, is that the current "interpretation" of the rule (arms outside of frame of body automatically equals deliberate intent to handle) has no basis in the actual Laws of the Game.

    It's pretty hard to do anything deliberately when you have zero reaction time, as Boateng did in this case.

    I suggest people read the following articles about hand ball....

    http://totalfuteblog.com/2014/05/26/understanding-the-hand-ball-rule/

    http://www.asktheref.com/Soccer/Referee/Articles/7/
     
  23. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    #23 mfw13, Jul 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
    My bad....its page 36 and Law XII....

    And whether or not he jumped, or where his arms were, are both irrelevant. And I'd note that defenders often stand with their arms up so that the referee can see that they are not pulling the attacking player's shirt.

    Because Chiellini headed the ball into Boateng's arm from six inches away, leaving Boateng with no reaction time, there could not possibly have been a deliberate intent to handle the ball, which is what the Laws require for an infraction to be called.
     
  24. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're making a mistake by using deliberate and intent interchangeably. They are not the same in refereeing terms. A player absolutely can commit deliberate handling without intending to handle the ball. Boateng did just that today.
     
    IASocFan and JasonMa repped this.
  25. mfw13

    mfw13 Member+

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Please show me where that is specified in the Laws of the Game.

    As I have said, that is the current "interpretation" of the rule....it also has no basis in the actual Laws of the Game.

    And I'm curious how someone can deliberately do anything without intending to do it....
     

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