Match 44 : ENGLAND V ICELAND - SKOMINA (SVN)

Discussion in 'Euro 2016: Refereeing' started by Thezzaruz, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Referee: Damir Skomina (SVN)
    Assistant referees: Jure Praprotnik (SVN), Robert Vukan (SVN)
    Additional assistant referees: Matej Jug (SVN), Slavko Vinčić (SVN)
    Fourth official: Carlos Velasco (ESP)
    Reserve official: Roberto Alonso (ESP)
     
  2. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Frantic start to this.

    Penalty correctly given meant 1-0

    Then a long TI and poor defending makes it 1-1.

    This could get fairly physical before the night is over, will be interesting to see how Skomina deals with it.
     
  3. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Good yellow to Sigurdsson (sp?) in 38' for Delay.
     
  4. London_ref

    London_ref Member

    May 6, 2014
    London, England
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Thought he was pretty much faultless.

    Collina (observer) I'm sure will be pleased. Semi-final (final?) now a real possibility.
     
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  5. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    Yea he (and the team) did really well.
     
  6. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Solid performance, and flies in the face of those that think that referees from "lesser" soccer nations/leagues can't handle the top games. Some of them have out-performed the "big boys".
     
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  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Agree on solid performance.
    But although Slovenia is now a "lesser" as you put it, soccer nation, it previously was
    part of Yugoslavia, so the tradition of top nogomet is still there.
    This is not like someone coming from, let's say, Iceland.:rolleyes:

    The basic principle still applies, so no "flying in faces" for me.

    PH
     
  8. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Well, Skomina did not referee in the old "Yugoslavia", so ?????

    The current UEFA ranking of the Slovenian League, which he does referee in, is #30 in Europe.

    Very well done to him and his crew!
     
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  9. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    It is all about soccer culture. Slovenia has has it and still has it, regardless of its league ranking.
    Where is the Scottish league ranked? #25, but no-one is going to say Scotland is a "lesser" soccer nation.
    Similarly for Hungary, ranked at #33.
    Your point has no merit whatsoever.

    PH
     
  10. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    Who cares what kind of a soccer culture a country has?
    All that matters is the skill level of the domestic league. You'd expect that the best FIFA refs would come from the countries with the most competitive leagues, and they normally do...which is why it's nice to see refs like Skomina do well.
     
  11. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Most knowledgeable people do. That is why the top players and top money go to those countries.
    Messi and Ronaldo do not play in MLS, even if they could afford the salary. It is only
    after their prime when they go to these types of countries, e.g., Beckham, Gerrard, Lampard etc.
    Even some of the best US players play abroad.

    Yes, true, and the greater the soccer culture of that country, usually the greater the skill
    level of the domestic league. Thus the top leagues in Italy, Spain, Germany and England have greater skill
    level than those in USA, Australia, China, Dominican Republic, etc.
    Although this has now been somewhat leveled by money factors in some countries (China, Japan).

    Exactly, and from strong soccer cultures, even if the domestic league is not all that competitive according to the rankings.
    Like Skomina, Kassai, Erickson and Collum. So it is no real surprise to see them doing well.
    This was the point I was trying to make.

    But you don't expect them to come from countries with weaker soccer culture and less competitive leagues,
    e.g. Iceland, hence no FIFA referees from Iceland at Euro-2016. Now if one of them did some day get to a Euro or a World Cup and did well, then that would be a surprise.
    It is "dog bites man" versus "man bites dog."

    Very simple really, no matter how much people want to oppose it.

    PH
     
  12. akindc

    akindc Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    Washington, DC
    So other than Iceland, are there any UEFA countries that you wouldn't consider as having a strong soccer culture, other than the ones that don't have a viable domestic league?
     
  13. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Well, actually that was my whole point. I was "standing up" for the officials from the lower-ranked countries, such as Slovenia, Hungary, Scotland etc. It was not I who was questioning why they were there. I know they deserve to be there.

    That's my point.
     
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  14. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #14 Pierre Head, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
    No, but you were saying it "flies in the face" of people who say that referees from lesser countries should not be selected. Nobody was ever saying they did not deserve to be there, this was an unnecessarily provocative statement that was your own construction, usually known as a straw man. Who said that referees from Scotland, Hungary etc., should not be there? Did you read this somewhere, or did it come to you in a dream?

    In any event, I am saying that in fact Slovenia does not fit this criterion because it is not really a lesser country, so no "flying in faces" is necessary. It occupies the same piece of land as it did when it was a region of Yugoslavia so still maintains its soccer culture. If you cannot accept this fact, as it appears that you cannot, then I don't know what else to say.
    Furthermore, I don't think these guys need you or anyone else to "stand up" for them; they do that well enough on their own.

    PH
     
  15. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here. This question has nothing to do with the main point of my initial response that Slovenia should not be considered a lesser soccer country and therefore it is not surprising that they can produce a top FIFA referee. Nothing you have said diminishes that.

    PH
     
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Not interested in getting into the rest of the debate here, but you are completely wrong in what I have quoted above. Slovenia is a lesser soccer country. It is more known for skiing and being the home of Donald Trump's latest wife than for being good at soccer. It has a crappy national team and it has a crappy domestic league. Just because it was part of the former Yugoslavia does not make it a country of great soccer culture. Slovenian players and clubs had nothing to do with the success of the Yugoslav national team and the great club sides such as Red Star Belgrade and Partizan Belgrade that reached and won European Cup Finals.

    Slovenia never contributed any players of any note to those great Yugoslav sides. Most of the players came from what is now Serbia and Croatia and some from Bosnia. It is no coincidence that the Croat and Serb national teams are the strongest from what is now the former Yugoslavia.

    It's like saying that Kazakhstan has a great soccer culture because it was part of the former USSR and thus should get credit for USSR's success when everyone knows that they did nothing. It is a lesser soccer country with hardly any soccer tradition just like Slovenia.
     
  17. allan_park

    allan_park Member

    May 15, 2000
    Well, it may well be that I owe you an apology then. I thought you had said elsewhere on these boards that referees from the likes of Slovenia, Hungary and Scotland should not do the likes of Champions League and Euro finals games due to the relative weakness of their domestic leagues.

    If that was not you, then I do offer my apology.

    If, in fact, you believe that these guys fully deserve their place, then we are in agreement.
     
  18. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    #18 Pierre Head, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
    This would be more believable if not posted from someone called RedStar91. You are not exactly objective here.

    Ridiculous analogy. The huge USSR stretched for thousands of miles and included republics from the Baltics to the far east of Asia. Yugoslavia was a very small territory by comparison, only 100th of the area of USSR. In fact Yugoslavia is only 1/3 the size of Texas. Comparing a European country to a far eastern Asian one in this regard is totally absurd.

    PH
     
  19. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I did not say exactly that. I have questioned the relative numbers of recent appointments of the Scottish referees in CL and EL matches, and suggested that it may be due to the presence of a certain fellow countryman in a high position
    on the UEFA referee's committee. It seemed to me to be higher than appointments of referees from other countries with similarly ranked domestic leagues. Whereas the Scottish league used to be quite good, it has really declined over the past 25 years since the founding of the English Premier League. Outside of the Glasgow teams, the standard falls off very fast.
    But as was pointed out by another poster in this discussion, it is clear that the better FIFA referees come from the
    countries with the higher playing standards.

    The Euros aside, several of the referees who show up at the World Cup are not really experienced enough to be there. It is only through political reasons that they make it. I realize that it is probably not politically correct to mention this and there will always be people who will object to it. That does not make it any less true.

    PH
     
  20. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    It might not be a big issue in the ref forum here (or among referees anywhere) but if you ask regular soccer fans it's quite common to hear the ability of referees from lesser countries being questioned just because they are from a lesser country (in Europe at least that is). Thankfully the powers that be are not as prejudiced.
     
  21. Thezzaruz

    Thezzaruz Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Sweden
    They really should tbh. Their league hasn't been in the top half of Uefa leagues since it started, sure they beat the real minnows but it is far from good (hell even calling it "decent" would be considered praise) and, as @RedStar91 pointed out, it really wasn't any better before the wall went down.
     
  22. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is this debate seriously still going?
     
  23. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    This debate is silly, but you're impossible to deal with. You refuse to admit you're completely wrong here. You are wrong. Period.

    The fact that I'm from the former Yugoslavia and the fact that I grew up watching soccer in the country gives me a better perspective and more accueate perspective than most. There is no bias. It's a fact that Slovenia contributed hardly anything to Yugoslav soccer. Anyone with any knowledge and understanding of the game knows that and would not disagree with that statement.

    But as with everything you say on here, once you say something you refuse to reconsider or admit that your opinion is wrong no matter how ridiculous you sound. Believe me, you do sound ridiculous when you say "Slovenia was part of the former Yugoslavia and, thus, has a strong soccer culture and tradition and shouldn't be considered a small soccer nation."

    The USSR example is completely valid. A federation/state made up of smaller republics where only one or two of those republics contributed to the success of the national team and domestic game and thus only one or two of those republics get to take the credit and success for that once the country dissolves.

    So by your logic Macedonia and Kosovo should not be considered small soccer nations because they were once a part of the former Yugoslavia?

    If the USSR example is not good enough, let's switch it to a smaller country to point out how absurd your statement is.

    If the UK was one national team and broke up into the current home nations, no one would disagree with the statement of Wales being a small soccer nation. If the UK won the World Cup in '66 instead of England, no one would give the credit to Wales. Apart from Ryan Giggs, Bale and Ian Rush they have nothing. They have no strong domestic league. No strong refereeing tradition. They are a small soccer nation just like Slovenia, albeit, they are stronger than Slovenia.
     
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