Match 34: KSA : EGY - ROLDAN (COL)

Discussion in 'World Cup 2018: Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Match #34
    Saudi Arabia : Egypt
    Monday, 25 June 2018
    17:00 local time (10:00 EDT)
    Volgograd

    Referee: Wilmar Roldan (COL)
    AR1: Alexander Guzman (COL)
    AR2: Cristian de la Cruz (COL)
    Fourth Official: Ricardo Montero (CRC)
    Reserve AR: Hiroshi Yamauchi (JPN)

    Video Assistant Referee: Artur Dias Soares (POR)
    AVAR 1: Tiago Lopes Martins (POR)
    AVAR 2: Carlos Astroza (CHI)
    AVAR 3: Wilton Sampaio (BRA)
     
  2. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Surprised he gets a second game, but it is a meaningless match, so perhaps that is why he gets it. Message sent in a negative manner.

    PH
     
    MrPerfectNot repped this.
  3. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I'm almost considering watching this just to see the inevitable meltdown.
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm obviously not watching this, but 3 fouls through 36 minutes (according to FIFA.com) is, well, different.
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PK to KSA. Not as clear cut as the Korea one, but there's enough there to call it and certainly not enough to overturn it.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm going to need to see a video of that one, because that picture could tell a number of stories. The one that jumps into my head first says no way on a PK. But video could show something entirely different than what is in my mind.
     
  7. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another PK to KSA.

    It leads to an OFR.
     
  8. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By far the longest OFR of the tournament and it stands with a PK.
     
  9. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2nd PK - Roldan gave a PK and VAR recommended an OFR.

    After spending about 45 seconds at the monitor, he stayed with the decision of a PK after deciding the pull on the arm came before the pull on the jersey.

    https://www.clippituser.tv/c/lnwmkb
     
    Guinho repped this.
  11. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    INteresting. Holding has been inconsistent in the extreme, it seems to me. Not sure how they rein that in, but it seems that there's hugs and pulls on every set piece. If that standard prevailed, we could have several PKs each match for a while.

    Thoughts?

    The first PK seems to be arm out in an "unnatural position" (which always sounds vaguely puritanical to me) making himself bigger and blocking the cross thereby, so good PK?
     
  12. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Roldan obviously trying to show that he does know what a PK is after all, following his failure to
    give obvious PKs in the England-Tunisia match. Maybe he got a refresher course!

    PH
     
    MrPerfectNot repped this.
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't love it. But certainly not anything for VR to overturn as clearly wrong. Falls right in the grey area. Some components say PK, others say no PK.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fascinating.

    Again, I don't like that PK call there. If you see that correctly, I think you call nothing. Both were grabbing and the attacker certainly has not earned a PK when he's grabbing a handful of jersey and pulling his defender with him.

    But I also don't think there's enough to clearly overturn. I don't like the PK, but I can't say it's clearly wrong precisely because the defender is reaching out to hold the attacker. So I think you're left with having to let a "soft" PK call stand.

    Juxtapose this one against Brych in Serbia-Switzerland, which is the other one where you can say both players were committing fouls. Of course, in that one the defensive foul was far more egregious. But I think it shows why Brych likely would not have overturned his decision as clearly wrong and gone with a PK. The bar is that high. Surprised Dias Soares sent this down.
     
  15. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's my take-away. This shouldn't have been an OFR based on what we've seen during the World Cup.
     
    Battler and MassachusettsRef repped this.
  16. Guinho

    Guinho Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes, bless their hearts
    Estonia
    May 27, 2001
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, i'm guessing after this tournament, the question of whether PKs of this magnitude should be sent down is going to be much examined.

    I for one could see a lower bar to allow CRs to reconsider soft calls, or pretty borderline non-calls. Partly because it is a balance between accuracy and speed, and since people seem fairly ok with the stoppages, that relaxes the need to severely limit the number of reviews.
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW we have now matched the World Cup record of 18 penalty kicks. And it only took 33 games!
     
  18. El Rayo Californiano

    Feb 3, 2014
    FIFA wants goals!
     
  19. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think he should have reversed it. That was less than soft. Its also possible he was shielded in real time (it looks that way to me). The arms are entangled, a player passes in front of him, and now the forward is down in the box. I could see why he called it (he didn't have a clear view), why the VAR sent it down (he did have a clear view), but I can't see why R stayed with it, especially with the shirt pull in there. To me, that meets the clear and obvious standard. Its closer to the Neymar one than the Brych one. But hey. Roldan.
     

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