Pre-match: March Friendlies - Ecuador & Chile

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by AutoPenalti, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    Put it this way, if they had 11 Weston's ready to go this cycle we'd be in great ********ing shape.
     
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  2. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I don't think it's intellectually dishonest to say that players who earn consistent minutes at a materially higher level of play are by and large better than those who play at lower levels. I don't think anyone in our pool are as good as players who start for top 5 teams (hoping that I'm wrong wrt CP) but several are good enough to earn minutes at major league teams. Is that intellectually dishonest? There is an open question about bench warmers on top 150 teams vs. starters at lower levels and I can see both sides of that equation.

    Tyler Adams is actually a good example of how global soccer is a meritocracy, like most sports in the world. He and Almiron were rising, elite MLS players when then moved on to better teams (or better in my mind as perhaps you think it was a lateral move for each. There are respected posters that think/thought that Atlanta was roughly mid-table EPL). When they arrived in the majors, they were quickly able to acclimate and apply their game at a faster and smarter level.

    Let me be clear, it's not that MLS player are always worse than major league players just as NCAA players aren't definitionally worse than NBA players. I'm sure that there are other players who have the ability to raise their game. However, the speed and talent of the game between the world's top teams and those in the 200-400 range are so different that you cannot reliably use the eye test as a gauge and the chances of them getting to a higher level isn't high. This is particularly true with mid-late career minor leaguers should not be assumed to have that extra ability to adapt and that's quite different from younger players.

    You may not like 538 but it's seem pretty directionally good to me. would I use to prove that the 250th team is better than 260? Nah but 89 vs. 258? Yeah, i'm highly confident that they're leagues apart and the starting players for 89 are better than those for 258.
     
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  3. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    They've used him as a regista in 3 CB systems.
     
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  4. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    Well ok then. I think basing anything off what we witnessed the past 2 years with the USMNT is folly. That was dysfunction described; piss poor coaching, bad roster selections and crappy conditions. Some guys may have risen in that mess and I give them credit if so but if I put those 2 side by side and watch each play in their respective leagues, it's a no brainer.

    Lletget most likely deserves to be on the 23. I can't see ever putting him over McKennie on the 11. Now and even more so down the road.

    McKennie plays for a dysfunctional coach (not any longer thankfully) but I pay more attention to abilities in those cases and his ceiling is so much higher than Lletget's. And I want a WC team that's ready and really could care less about now. Mckennie can attack or defend. I can see his quality against superior opponents when comparing Lletget.
     
  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Truthfully, didnt GB use a system in Columbus is which his OUTSIDE BACKS went forward in attack during possession while Trapp actually dropped back between the CBs and basically acted as a 3rd centerback? The system that he is trying to implement now seems quite different than that Crew team, in which the offense was run through a specific player (Higuaín). So if he is going to use a different system than what was used with the Crew, its certainly relevant to discuss whether or not he is making the appropriate adjustment.
     
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  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    There is a non-negligible chance that Weston McKennie may evolve into the #10 we wish we had. He has 4 assists in 13 Bundesliga appearances, most of the time playing CM/DM or in a defensive role.

    So it is a nice number of assists.
     
  7. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    The system can be tweaked but the principles and style remain the same. What that means is debatable but from what we’ve seen so far .. that central “qb” seems a priority
     
  8. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Do you think Adams has a chance to beat out Trapp for that “qb” role?
     
  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I also think that Higuain was the key player for the crew’s entire system. I don’t think we have a player in the USMNT mold
     
  10. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    That’s why GB is going with the “dual 10’s” to get that production and creativity.
     
  11. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    For our system? I don't think Trapp is good enough against strong opposition, and I don't think Tyler's best position is there.

    Right now, a good team would destroy us mainly due to our lack of a pure DM to help cover for when our fullbacks, who are really more wingbacks, go wandering.

    The three-man backline is something that needs some consideration at this point. For our qualification, the fact that most of our decent CBs are physical monsters but bad at following dribblers worries me.

    Costa Rica and Mexico would have a field day against a backline of Miazga-Brooks protected by Trapp. We'd be fighting Panama and Jamaica (luckily, physical teams we should beat on paper) to avoid finishing fourth and having to deal with the likes of Chile or Uruguay or Peru.
     
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  12. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, but that player being in the dmid position is NOT necessarily what that means. Ergo, if GB plays Pulisic centrally, as he has said he will, and he rips it up as a Higuaín-type creator, it seems to me that would obviate the need to have a deep-lying qb, as you've termed it.
     
  13. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I think he’s already planning a 3 man back line with the ream call up and lack of a true left full back.
     
  14. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I didn’t term it. ;-).

    It wouldn’t though. That role would be necessary regardless. He had it with Trapp with Higuain.

    That role seems a consistent need regardless
     
  15. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we fundamentally disagree on how the Crew played, so we won't come to a meeting of the minds. To me, Trapp dropped back and simply played unchallenged balls out of the back, with tons of time. And hell, we have numerous players who can do that in that type of space. But, we shall see how this works out.
     
  16. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    With a 3 man back line - and two cms in front (Trapp and Adams) - I think we’d be fine in the middle. It would be the wings.

    I think the base offense is more a 343 than 433. The core concepts are 433 but he’s tweaking them to solve these issues.

    It’s more a 343 with the two top “ wings/forwards” tucked in (cp and WM). The two midfielder wings covering up and down the flank and two cms covering the middle.

    In that base system the weakness will be our cbs mobility and ability to cover wide when the wide midfielders are forward.

    ??? These are more questions and musings than statements....
     
  17. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I don’t think we’re disagreeing there ...
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Berhalter has three options for how to deal with this "regista" role and so far he has gone with the worst one.

    Option 1 - use the only two who supposedly play the role and use better players try to hide their mistakes. This path will likely show that they might be able to make a decent long pass or two when playing lesser teams and given lots of time and space. When they are pressured they will play square and back passes putting other players under pressure and cough the ball up in dangerous spots. Meanwhile, defensively we will have a huge liability weighing us down. The way these two guys double team make it difficult for original defender and breaks down our shape.

    Option 2 - Find best player with best chance of growing into the role. I see that as Tyler Adams. Ask him to sit in the "pocket" and look to pick out passes. He has shown he can make big switches and long diagonal balls... @TheHoustonHoyaFan can probably tell you when examples of this happening in which minute of what game. This would challenge him and help him grow his game and we would have the advantage that when Adam's gets flushed out of the pocket, he can dribble out of pressure and maintain possession. Defensively, Adam's is rarely caught forward and holding down fort while waiting for Mckennie to drop in.

    Option 3 - Tweek the role /system to fit Adam's. This could be done by having Brooks step into the midfield instead of the right back. Brooks is much better passer and at avoiding pressure than MB and WTF. While Brooks might be caught forward but the right back would like be faster, more agile, and better at defending 1v1 and in transition.

    I'd go with options 2 and/or 3 and suspect if we see option 1, we will see some sub standard performances.
     
  19. LuckofLichaj

    LuckofLichaj Member

    Mar 9, 2012
    GGG’s system looks far more like a 3-man back line to me
     
  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Wes has that patented dribble up the middle of the attacking half followed by the nicely timed slant pass to the wing back (Caliguri, Schalke's best player, e.g.) Arriola could be a recipient of a pass like that, or Pulisic. Also his aerial game is only getting better.

    The problem is the breadth of Wes' game. He's a mile deep and an inch wide. I don't feel like going into a detailed take down of his game but you'll see it seeping out in these boards over time, resisted by those who jump up and down cheering this or that great play. I do think I've given a hint as to why it is hard to fix his position.
     
  21. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This was always how I felt but with Trapp and the positionally sound Delgado (fixed 8) plus Adams in the free8 role. Berhalter likes to talk about how he wants to unbalance the opponent. Ok, but doesn't that suggest that our opponent wants to do the same thing to us?

    the reason for preferring the 3 cb system also has to do with how US tries to score goals: Sending Cb's into the box on corner's and free kicks.

    If I were forced to choose one play that is emblematic of the USMNT's style and difficulties, it would be Falcao's goal (Colombia's 3rd) last year. Opponents have figured out that you play wide against the US and you counter like mad on American corners getting behind Bradley. Look also at Mexico's goal in quali's at Azteca. Same difference. Those two goals were winning goal and tying goal respectively.
     
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  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    So you would start Horvath over Steffen.
     
  23. CU soccer

    CU soccer Member

    Mar 28, 2005
    Panama City Beach
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes.
     
  24. CU soccer

    CU soccer Member

    Mar 28, 2005
    Panama City Beach
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes
     
  25. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would 11 MCKennies beat 11 Pulisics? I'm getting a headache.
     

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