Pre-match: March Friendlies - Ecuador & Chile

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by AutoPenalti, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm liking the usmnt sub Reddit so far. I just started using it, but so far so good. I'm still searching for other options as well.

    As for BS the Youth National team board has some great threads about kids playing in MLS, USL, DA and abroad. Lots of analysis without the toxicity of this board (the Carlton thread is hella spicy). This a great place to track progress of young Nats and discover players to watch. You'll find yourself watching games just based on discoveries from this board.

    I stll like YA and the various sub threads. (the Mukwalle Akale thread is special and requires some mental prep before diving in) Overall, it can be a little toxic at times but not too bad.

    MLS N&A has a game week thread that is hands down the funniest and coolest thread on BS. It's basically running commentary of game day action for MLS, USL, and whatever the hell is on TV that week.
     
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  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    That's the piece (above link) which puts the situation in a nutshell. The problem I think you will see with Trapp is that Berhalter leaves space open in the central area of the pitch making it difficult for the pivot to hit attackers with passes; when something is difficult to do, it results in being pressured and the pressure will be on our 6 in the defending third (think Bradley v, Costa Rica)

    Howvr, in Trapp's case he can pass long; Adams will pass short. Adams will be better at dribbling out of pressure but is that any way to win a game? I think Adams' long passing will get better. He can do it physically. It would help Adams to have Brooks in the game plus anybody else who can pass out of the back. But is Brooks the best defender for concacaf international games? I don't think so.

    One of the important ingredients in this discussion is the number of cb's. I prefer 3.

    Taking all the above into account and recognizing that we have a present at the creation situation rather than "final piece in the puzzle" problem, I vote for Trapp at the 6 while we figure things out - which gives Adams time to expand his game in the middle and final third as a free 8.
     
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  3. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I honestly hope Adams development just surprises everyone and he can take on that qb/ distributer role pretty quickly. It solves a lot of problems. Until then, the whole rb/hyrbrid thing isn't bad. You have to view it more of a 343 than a 433. In the 343- Adams ins one of the two cms with someone like Adams to help with the longer passing. Its not a bad plan to start with.

    I think we can qualify with that plan. But hopefully. Adams really hits an elite level and can own that role without Trapp next to him. Then we likely become more of a straight 433 team.
     
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  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    WM has not been impactful for us. Lletget has. CP's defense has improved a lot and we don't need everybody to be 100% suited to possession game. The possession question will become more debatable when Berhalter's system is seen in terms of results going forward thru Gold Cup.

    But, no, our raw material isn't particularly suited to the possession game. I'd suggest that has to start with good passing out of the back. Did anybody see Robinson's performance against Monterrery yesterday? MLS doesn't have their chalkboard opta data up yet.
     
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  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    This is the problem - you think we can qualify with this untested scheme that puts one of our elite players at RB when on defense instead of the middle of the field where he excels for a major league team.

    Our baseline is not to qualify but to win the group or at least come in second place.
     
  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    TFC played with 3cb's. Berhalter has been reluctant to use the 3cb system on a regular basis.
     
  7. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I would say this is a key point where we disagree. We didn't qualify last cycle. Our first goal is to qualify- imo and not take that for granted.
     
  8. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    For the crew with is personnel there. This seems like a pretty firm committment to play with 3cbs with the USMNT. He didn't even call up a traditional left back. He's basically committing to some form of 3 in the back
     
  9. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I think Robinson's problem is that GB is looking to play with more of 3 in the back system than a 4 in the back system where the outside backs overlap.

    I agree about WB vs LLetget.
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I agree wholehearted that we shouldn't take qualification for granted.

    For example, it would be naive to use a system that we don't have the players for or if we must use that system, to put players in roles that accentuate our defensive shortcomings / opponent's strength by in an attempt to present a pleasing style.
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    We are so tired of the "has to play because he plays in BL" argument.

    And "undifferentiated" in BL2/MLS/Championship is a good one. I was going to ask what you meant by "undifferentiated" but, no, pls dont answer that.

    Hopefully a lot of this goes away after the CBA is finalized.
     
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  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Coming from a poster who thinks Roldan is better than WM, I get it.

    You don't believe in the global soccer meritocracy and think that because Best XI MLS type players can play for NUFC and RBL, average MLS must be just as good. Yikes.
     
  13. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I meant Miles Robinson, the Atlanta CB.
     
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  14. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Pragidealist is right: You just cant do it.
     
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  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Actually, Prag says I can't not speak of WT and MB. neither is mentioned here.

    You go on trying to prove that MLS is the same as B1 and EPL. To help you, Roldan's Seattle is the 257th ranked team (according to 538) while Schalke is still 89th, despite a crap season and firing their coach.

    I hear that Clemson's football team is actually better than the NY Giants as well. Have you watched their highlights? They crush the competition this year way more than the NYG did.
     
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  16. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010

    You have two choices here. You can spend every US friendly and tournament ranting about why GB's approach is wrong. OR

    You can try and think through ways that he could make this approach work?

    One is going to deeply upset you for 2 to 4 years. The other could probably give you some enjoyment around watching the games for the next 2 to 4 years. Regardless- the result on the field will be the same. Your choice though.
     
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  17. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honest question, does this mean that Lletget is a better prospect for the US than Mckennie? Because he looked better to you in a fully dysfunctional USMNT?
     
  18. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    He can answer his own opinion. For me, its that LLetget is more likely useful now. Its not about future projections.

    WM is an odd duck,man. He's playing for Shalke but he's playing everywhere. He's not locking down a key role. That means he's not playing in any one of these roles in a way that is telling his manager that he can't be moved. Shalke also play a style that is difficult to judge. WM has just not quite arrived yet. He's still an excellent prospect. Hopefully, he becomes one of our key cogs but hoping for the future doesn't make it so today.

    Right now GB seems to really value him. He talked about him in that 8/10 role. I think that role is his to lose. It won't surprise me though if someone like LLegett beats him out for it. Or Adams may beat him out for it.

    He's just one that I wouldn't count as "arrived" yet.
     
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Yes (subject to fuller review of the situation because of the bad injury he suffered).
    Gosh, I never thought Lletget was very good before I saw him play with USMNT. He broke his leg getting hacked by a Honduran who was upset about watching Lletget tear down the touch line. He was in the West Ham system which is very good. Stroud is a u17 guy who is there now.

    Having said that we are talking about two different contributions: Lletget is a more versatile attacker with a deeper knowledge of the game cultivated at West Ham. McKennie doesn't have a role with his club yet. People want to ignore that. You really can't.
     
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  20. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    is this for real? he's playing in the UCL and putting in great performances. JFC what is wrong with some of the MLS homers and shit here.

    "he doesn't have a role"? Really? He's playing all over the field and impacting the game wherever. The stupid here hurts so much sometimes. There is not another country in the world that would say a guy playing in the Bundesliga, playing in and more than holding his own in massive UCL ties where his team is getting dominated isn't a better option now and in the future than some kid in MLS? And he's not a "kid" really he's 26.

    WTF man.
     
  21. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You keep going in circles with the intellectually dishonest arguments to confirm your league bias evaluation of individuals that was a proven epic failure under a previous manager who shall not be named.

    This constant reference to 538 is ridiculous. What are they basing inter-continental rankings on? Teams from those leagues rarely play each other. Seattle has 3 times the Transfermarkt value of Aves, who is rated 1 spot below them. The only way to somewhat compare is money, and that's still limited because teams out-play or underachieve their financial investment to significant degrees based on scouting and implementation.

    Like we should expect our national team managers to achieve at instead of fail again like you're suggesting. Looking forward to another World Cup trying to figure out a 2nd team to root for. At least we won't have to risk terrorist attacks in Qatar.

    You're just playing ignorant that pro football is a meritocracy and once you're good enough to play in a league you'll magically transport there. Scouting, timing, career arc, situation, work permits, EU passports, etc.; these things don't matter.

    This has nothing to do with Roldan vs. McKennie. I continue to resent this trite and specious argument. It's a false dilemma anyway the way I see it. I guess you think Tyler Adams was a bum MLS player a couple months ago but now he's a star because he's shining for RB Leipzig. It's more magic. They just waved a wand over him and poof - he became a different player. And it would have been equally as likely to prove himself there without the national team integration first.
     
  22. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    He just got dimantled 7-0. so I think great performances may be a bit overshot. He's had a lot of highs and lows. Hey maybe I'm wrong. go look at his stats.. pass percentages, chances created, etc. Show me how good he is doing.
     
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  23. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't agree with his perspective here, but it's much more apt the explanation is he's appealing to authority or has his favorites from the samples he's seen. "MLS homers" is not much of a thing here. The league still has limited cache. It's just people with motives like I said or have players they individually rate or don't, outside outliers like Bruce S. The prejudice is far more against individual MLS players simply because the league where they initially plied their trade, while not being teens. Maybe you're just seeing it well on the right of that spectrum and you think those who don't align are being radical or there's not a different explanation for it.
     
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  24. madvillain

    madvillain Member+

    Aug 28, 2011
    Club:
    Brooklyn Knights
    starting in the bundesliga and UCL is prima facie evidence he's playing at a high level of world soccer. starting in MLS is not.
     
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  25. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He has the 5th highest Whoscored rating on Schalke, in spite of playing a significant amount off the bench which tanks your score, and as you mentioned playing all over the park. It looks like he has a 7+ rating as a starter in both the BL and UCL. That's above average. So he's doing well.

    I personally think he should be a lock starter for the US at one of the 3 cm positions (if Bradley or Trapp start over him, either Berhalter is being majorly biased or way too married to his system). Just a matter of figuring which one he could fit in best. Could be any of them. He is well-rounded, while maybe not standout at anything but winning aerial duels (WS does note "defensive contribution" as well, which I'd say he's good not great at). I'd like to see him at destroyer 6, but that's not GB's system, and it does depend on tactic + need.
     
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