the size means nothing. thats absurd. just because alot of people live here doesnt mean we have that big of an advantage.
Pele's two World Cup wins, including one at 17 with 5 goals in the semis and finals, as well as anchoring what is considered the greatest team ever in '70, lead me to give him the nod, though I only saw him play after he retired from international play. Maradona was the best and most complete player I've ever seen, and the most fun, and because of the way he ruined his career and nearly ruined my joy of the game, the most tragic. And, Pele's teams were better. His '62 team repeated even though he missed the single elimination games. There is no way Argentina wins in '86 without Maradona - the most dominant performance in a single World Cup. I think the fairest way to put it is that Maradona is the only player who can fairly be mentioned other than Pele as possibly the greatest ever.
Obviously, it's a combination of: 1. Interest 2. Population 3. infrastructure. To totally discount the size of the pool of players is absurd. There are other reasons that China isn't a dominating soccer power. But make it their national game, have generations of young Chinese aspire to be soccer players... and you'd have a powerhouse. To say that "population means nothing" or little discounts the fact that... well... almost all the "best" nations are rather large. Smaller nations like Holland and Denmark occasionally perform well. But it's no accident that the biggest countries with high soccer interest tend to win more. If Brazil had a smaller pool of talent, they'd win less. This is hardly shocking nor insulting to the talent of individual Brazilians.
all This depends on the age on which you are born, your nationality and your biases.. It is subjective.. Still, it sickens me to see conservative rightwing hardnecks hating maradona just becuase he cheated in one goal and because he did drugs. I dont think they would say the same if their son lost his way in life like Diego did. Sorry it seems but there are still some Britons who think that they are the rulers of the world. After colonising all of the world and sucking the joy out of life in many many communitites in the world, their pride was marred by a 5 feet long piece of rage that was Maradona. They could not stand all this.. Could they? Then started the process of demonising him.. Diego ********ted his life but he did not owe any other ************** anything.. He had every right to ******** on his own life.. About the hand of god, if rooney does the same now, you will certainly say " Well, the ball came into the hand" Victorian moralities should be thrown into the dustbin.. Diego is one of the greatest players ever. Pele is another one. We cant compare the two.
WC 66. A huge disgrace. He was injured in 62 as well if I recall correctly. Garrincha stepped up the plate big time in that tournament.
The reason that England was so agrieved was that he punched the ball into the net, and then scored a great goal with the opposition shell shocked at the blatant cheating. Maradona is not my son, I have no reason to let him off for losing his way in life. On the colonial issue, Britain may have a slightly murky history there, but that is also true of France, Italy, Holland, Portugal, Germany, Belgium and Spain. If anything Britain was simply better at it. No-one ever says "oh those fiendish Belgians, what they did in the Congo was apalling". The reason that some Brits hate Maradona is not through colonialism, although there was bad blood in 86 through the whole Falklands issue. Witness the amazing loathing on these boards, especially from Americans, for Rivaldo for his simulation in 02. It is not just the Brits who hate a cheat.
For me, Maradona. I've only watched a handful of games featuring Pele -recently Brasil vs England from 1970- and as some people mentioned here, the pace and tactics used were laughable to say the least. On the other hand, I grew up in the 80's and Serie A was the showpiece for world football at the time, every player worth his salt was playing in Italy, and from 1984 to 1988, Maradona ruled the world.
I think Pele was the greatest ever. I could comment on the debate here and yes it'll never end, but I will rather comment on Maradona's current condition. I think it's so sad that such a soccer star fell to where he is. Tonight there was a segment on his current situation on a TV show called "Gazeta Esportiva." They were showing various highlights of his playing days... footage I had not seen before. Besides the Hand of God goal, they showed lots of plays from the days he had that afro-style hairdo... and they played highlights from his farewell match at Bombonera.... and played audio of Argentines chanting his name. It is simply so sad. I mean, he had all the money he needed and could have done much constructive activity after he retired (not that all retired ballers do). Or he could've just settled for a quiet, private life. I hope he recovers. But I do hope that he doesn't die, because I am beginning to think that might happen.
Ok, some of the things you say make sense.. Only one question.. If a Brit player would have done the same thing, would you Brits loathed him? Unless your own conscience is crystal clear, it is ridiculous to heap the burdens of conscience, honour and truth on others,( especially if they are not your son)?
No I don't think that he would have been loathed in Britain, he would be idolised (and he is by many, many Brits) despite it whereas in Argentina he is idolised for it. However, I think that there is a cultural difference between Britain and Argentina. Britain is legendary for a sense of fair play while in Argentina they will do almost anything to win. When Mariccio Tarico of Spurs was at Ipswich he was shocked to be confronted by his own teammates because he had fained injury to get an opponent sent off. Sadly that sense of fair play is to a certain extent vanishing from the Premiership with the increased diving and simulation that many foreigners have brought.
There is one part I agree.. English play a fairer game... Argentinians and many other nationalities can con at will to win.. Still, Britons have no right to insult Argentinians or anybody else on the issues of culture. On footballing ways.. ok thats fine but on a level of human life.. not acceptable.../.... If they start doing that ( as many brits do it on such net forums,) it is imperative to remind them of their own cultural lows and historical pitfalls.. ( Not aimed at any way at any individual briton.. most of them are great people)
Both were great, but Pele was more complete, more effective, more transcendent, more regular and more successful than Maradona, therefore it was better
That does not matter, Pele played 195 games with European teams and scored 204 goals. He won them at the club and national team level. Just look Pele vs Club Italians 06-05-1959 2-3 2 Inter Milano 06-26-1959 7-1 4 Inter Milano 06-30-1959 4-2 - Genoa 06-01-1960 3-2 1 AS Roma 06-03-1960 0-3 – Fiorentina 06-18-1960 2-0 1 Juventus Torino 06-21-1961 5-0 2 AS Roma 06-24-1961 4-1 1 Inter Milano 06-15-1963 4-3 2 AS Roma 06-19-1963 0-2 – Inter Milano 06-22-1963 0-4 – AC Milan 06-26-1963 3-5 1 Juventus Torino 10-16-1963 2-4 2 AC Milan 11-14-1963 4-2 – AC Milan 09-05-1966 4-1 1 Inter Milano 06-17-1967 2-1 1 Mantua 06-20-1967 1-0 – Venice 06-24-1967 5-1 3 US Lecce 06-27-1967 1-1 – Fiorentina 06-29-1967 3-1 1 AS Roma 08-26-1967 0-1 – Inter Milano 06-09-1968 2-1 – Cagliari 06-12-1968 2-0 1 Alexandria 06-21-1968 4-2 1 SSC Napoli 06-26-1968 6-2 2 SSC Napoli 06-28-1968 5-2 2 SSC Napoli 06-24-1969 1-0 – Inter Milano 09-24-1969 7-1 2 Combination Geneva / Genoa 06-23-1971 2-1 1 Bologna 06-27-1971 1-1 - Bologna 06-30-1971 1-0 1 Bologna 03-03-1972 2-0 – AS Roma 03-05-1972 3-2 2 SSC Napoli 04-29-1972 1-0 – SSC Napoli 05-01-1972 3-2 2 Cagliari 06-25-1972 7-1 2 Catanzaro 05-25-1973 3-0 1 Lazio Roma 05-28-1973 4-2 2 Lazio Roma 29 wins, 2 draws, 7 defeats 41 goals scored by Pelé, average = 1.08 goals per game 76 % won 37 % of Santos goals scored by Pelé Principal victim: Inter Milan = 8 goals Napoli = 7 goals Roma = 6 goals
Hi all, This is the new video compare Pele with 5 Greatest players : Bergkamp , Rivaldo , R9 , Messi , CR7. Pele can do everything at the highest level. Enjoy it ;-)
I changed Pele's video to dailymotion. http://dai.ly/x6klp5f I cannot embed video from daily motion like youtube. Can someone help me ?
Pele vs Maradona: This discussion is the zenith of Maradona, the best accomplishment Maradona has achieved and can achieve in his life while this discussion is somewhat degrading Pele. Maradona was very great player but he is not worthy to be compared to Pele. Anyone who thinks so is either heavily biased towards Maradona or does not understand football. Pele and Cruyff are far ahead of Maradona, that is why I think Maradona is the most overrated player ever. He is considered among the tops of football despite not being there. I am not going to go into this discussion, if you think Maradona is equal to Pele you are not worthy to have a dialogue about football with or about Pele comparison with. I just say I rest my case. If anyone is worthy to be compared to Pele that is Cruyff. Maradona's opponents are George Hagi, Romario, Ronaldo, Messi but not Cruyff or Pele.