This is the worst video you couldve picked Bearing in mind i havent watchted this in over 4 years steve mc manaman is literally saying word for word what i have been saying all along at 14:30 Messi did nothing in the QF,SF and final he doesnt deserve it period James rodriguez was a great contender with 6 goals(including goal of the tournament in the KO stage) They go on to say exactly what i feel/felt Messi seemed detatched wasnt charismatic ,even in defeat there was no sign of leadership (consoling his teammates etc) All in all makes for very unimpressive viewing Its no surprise that messi fans were offended by CR inspiring his team in the euro 16 final off the bench,in the changing room etc Messi fans arent accoustemed to this type of leadership In addition to their footballing ability this is what made cruyff,matthaus,maradona,CR,beckenbaur,zidane great players While others like zico and messi had 0% leadership qualities(and either choked or vomited when the going gets tough)
This is a better argument as it's focused on the three best players of that world cup, in most people's opinion and also when one looks at Whoscored ratings they were the top three. Spain are better on paper than any team Messi faced, and Chile too were better than the first 4 that Messi faced. But as the matches transpired, Argentina struggled against those teams more than the Dutch did against their opponents. If the argument can be made that that difference was significantly due to Robben, then fair enough. The way I saw it, RvP was very good until he tired as the tournament progressed, and Sneijder, Blind etc were good contributors early on. Later on the defence were quite solid. When Messi and Robben met in the semifinal, I felt Messi shaded that particular duel though the opposite argument can be justified too. Another argument in Messi's favour IMO is better defensive output compared to James and Robben and more overall involvement (passes, dribbles). James was good until the last 16, the quarter final was farcical with all the fouling by Brazil but it's what it is, it was a good performance under the circumstances but not overall. Apart from Robben in the 3rd place match, I can't say any of the three played all that spectacularly in the QF, SF and in Messi's case, the final (granted, I felt he was the best player on the pitch until the Lavezzi substitution). Up to the last 16 each of them is decisive, clearly. After that, aside from Germany vs Brazil the games were very tight. And the better players became defensive players.
You said Messi was surprised to win the award. Don't change the subject. No player has won a Golden Ball with 0 goals + 0 assists after QF (attacking player) ... but no player has won a Golden Ball getting knocked out in the QF. It'd make no sense to award it to a player knocked out before the SFs. The fact is, in WC 2014, there was no good clear candidate for the prize at the end of the competition. There hasn't been a good attacking candidate for a while for that matter. When CR7 gets knocked out when does he console teammates ... . He is muttering "injustice". The guy even hid on the 5th PK spot more than once.
Did castrols performance index ranking for world cup players all of a sudden become totally irrelevant? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...trol-Index-team-of-the-tournament-so-far.html who exactly proved a consensus on messi being a unanimous top 3 performer in WC14 I here this claim banded around on alot of forums but still waiting for the evidence
That was mid tournament. This was at the end of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrol_performance_index#2014_FIFA_World_Cup In contrast to 'Castrol', Messi did feature in the OPTA team, but wasn't included (unlike his main 'rivals) in the composite team in each of the last three rounds he played. So he's there for the first four games.
the hiding from penalties thing is hilarious but i refuse to indulge you here and sidetrack the discussion A fan from brazil fighting for the case of a argentinian who won a golden ball for a worse WC performance than bebeto 94 is astonishing Are you secretly being paid by the AFA?
I am not even saying he was outstanding or clearly deserving. You can look earlier in this thread and I said he was more clutch than having great overall performances. However, I want you to back up your claim that Messi himself was surprised at winning the award by his reaction. I gave you the post match footage that was shown to the world. Having opinions is fine. I can respect that. But making bogus statements is what gets annoying.
The bottom line is messi did not look comfortable You will interpret it as him internalising his guilt/emotions I will interpret it as him recognising he was unworthy of the trophy he was given Messi did not give his all considering the favourable conditions he enjoyed talk about false assumptions it is simply untrue nobody shined in the KO round James scored twice including one of the all time great world cup goals against uruguay (this isnt me exaggerating like leadleader claimed modric WC18 was GOAT lol) He was 21 years old a "new kid of the block" and this is the only reason he was overlooked in favour of the more established superstar There was already a narrative being constructed pre world cup that messi will surpass maradona His easy route facilitated by FiFA shouldve guarrenteed this but he couldnt deliver The only real issue i have with this is when it is said messi led his country to a WC final Im genuinely allergic to this type of BS Modric is the latest one who "led" his country to a WC final They wore the captain armband but thats it They did not lead or inspire their country to anything
Only my assumption is sound, yours is based out of thin air and made up just to support your opinion. Being "catatonic" or crying after a WC loss (unless you've won one before) is perfectly normal. I've said this before, it's really stupid to have the 2nd place team stay on the field throughout the whole ceremony and even award a player an individual award in front of everyone. This isn't the Olympics where placing 2nd or 3rd feels great unless you're complete underdogs that made it too far. Obviously after the group stage, it was mostly defense that lead Argentina to the Final. But you have no problem saying Ronaldo gave Portugal an Euro even if he didn't play the final and brush aside the level of competition he faced leading up to it.
What is in bold is unfortunately another lie ascribed to me I said CR displayed great leadership qualities in the euro 16 final that messi fans completely disregarded and called cheerleading ok I have to make this clear any "small" team that gets to the SF and beyond gets there on merit alone Performances/goals against wales (for example)shouldnt be looked down after all they defeated some good teams to earn their place in the SF
Fine. But you frequently mention strength of opposition to push down players or teams. So that's a bit contradictory. Speech for the team , getting teammate to take PK .. leadership qualities. What he was doing on the sidelines was over the top. He was just mimicking the coach.
@celito Cedric Soares, the Southampon full-back, revealed how Ronaldo had inspired the win."He gave us a lot of confidence and he said, 'Listen people, I'm sure we will win this Euro so stay together and fight for it'."It was unbelievable,” Soares added. “All the team had a fantastic attitude and showed that when you fight as one you are much, much stronger. "He was fantastic. His attitude was unbelievable. At half-time he helped a lot, our colleagues, he had always a lot of motivational words. All the team reacted to them so it was very, very good." Eder, the match-winner, also praised Ronaldo’s motivational abilities and claimed that the 31-year-old had predicted that he would score the decisive goal Ronaldo told me I would score the winning goal for the team," he told O Jogo, the Portuguese newspaper. "He gave me this strength, this energy and it was vital."It was a goal I've been working for from the first minute of the Euros,” he added. What you feel or i feel is irrelevant in this context "Being over the top" got portugal over the line This is a fact This is what is meant by leadership(that has many forms)and lionel messi definately was not in that category of players who could inspire his teammates
That's not a fact. That's conjecture. I bet Ronaldo has given many inspirational speeches with Portugal over the years. I bet he did it in 2014 WC. I bet he did it in the PK shootout vs Spain. That is result based analysis. We love pointing at 1 factor to give credit to a win. Many players over the years have given inspirational speeches. Only 1 team wins.
I bet... I bet... I bet... Sounds very speculative dont you think? the facts are staring you in the face In euro 2016 several portuguese players came out in the press and said the same thing Just to be clear I did not say CR takes full credit but there is no doubt whatsoever that his speech had a psycological impact on his teammates The guy is a beast and people can feed of that in a positive way They couldve picked any guy off the street to make the same speech but it wouldnt of had nowhere near the same effect Coming from CR with his passion,his stature in the game,flipping veins coming out of his neck youd be ready to go to war on the pitch deny this all you want but if you think about this objectively youd know im not exaggerating at all CR had to do all of maturing before he became a leader In 2012 he was a phenomenal individual player but still had a petulant side Its also worth remembering CR was the only player on the 2016 portuguese NT who had played in 2 euro championship finals He knew the feeling of coming so close and losing(on home ground aswell) He didnt like it at all That was the postive energy and wealth of experience he was conveying to his teammates The believed in him because they knew that he knew what he was talking about Its called conviction Its different than diego simeone(average player)shouting on the sideline like a mental health patient in champions league finals which had no effect on his team Giving Inspirational speeches arent exactly a foolproof method of winning championships As a one off and coming from a iconic champion as ronaldo it can work wonders in one off important games
You can look at his attitude on and off the pitch. He's clearly a standout leader. Messi is not capable of motivating his teammates despite being a more versatile footballer. It's a fact
It shows, which doesn't come as a surprise, that his passing positions vary the least (see description in the picture). There is similar data about successful passes or through ball attempts. Of course he's technically brilliant, and has improved further over the years (thanks and aided by his quick recovery and durability, for example). But, if you drop him as a #10 in another team, this aspect might cause matching problems. At Barcelona everything is well-rehearsed, he's a child of the club, they (and he) can work around his strengths and weaknesses. Suarez helps to maximize his potential while he is also in a situation to maximize Suarez. His (presumed) weaknesses become a strength. In another team, like the national side where everything is a bit lose and less defined, with perhaps less quality players around him too (despite knowing and playing many of them since the under-19 team), this is different. I didn't say it is the full answer but it might be "a small part of the puzzle" why his record against the Brazilian national team (or other elite sides) is rather unconvincing with many below par performances.
At least I state what I say is speculative instead of saying things like ... he clearly showed he was surprised to win the award because I saw it live . An example of something we never would have heard had Argentina not gotten out of the group stage . https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...-half-time-argentina-nigeria-world-cup-165779 You want leadership example ? Recently Neymar said he was having trouble adapting at Barca and Messi game to him and told him to play the way he knows and be himself which he said had a big effect on him .
Or it might be the case that he finds those passing lanes with his dribbling. Do you have similar stats for his international matches? In the end the only thing matters is how many goalscoring chances he created
Basically myself and 1 billion+ other people Did you conduct a survey to suggest messi was widely considered a top 3 performer by fans who watched him What you meant to say is people you know/interacted with consider messi a top 3 performer at WC 14 Im sure many germans(millions maybe)would think otherwise As would the dutch Brazilians,colombians etc Not even sure if there wouldve been a consensus amongst argentinians about whom their best player was The 3 candidates would probably be Messi,mascherano and di maria
2014 Messi was nowhere near as impressive at 1986 Maradona. Not even close. That much is clear. However, attempting to discredit Messi as "not even a top 3 performer is absurd". His goals won Argentina all three group stage matches, he assisted the winning goal in the Round of 16. No other player won their team four matches. Led the WC in almost all advanced stats like Key Passes, Dribbles etc. and most of them by considerable margins.
To be clear I didnt say he wasnt(top 3 candidate) At the same time it isnt absurd to suggest he wasnt Is opta a more verifiable source than castrol(or kicker for that matter) I strongly dispute there being a consensus amongst the footballing community regarding messi being a clear cut top 3 candidate Still waiting for evidence of this consensus A poll/survey conducted in the relevant time period would do just fine