They are hardly relative. Dribbling is the most important individual skill of a player, you can't advance game without it individually, where as you can score goals without bi-cycle kicks which are hardly 100th of most important individual skill. Even in the same kind of situations just controlling the ball first I mean they are worlds apart in frequency and importance.
Lol, he did somehow score a couple of wonder goals, I remember that. Do you remember an unknown Bressan guy playing for Fiorentina sscoring an incredible overhead kick in 1999 against Barcelona in the Champions League??
Yep. The best thing was that he basically didn't do anything else worthy of note in his whole career. Even in Italy he is hardly known. He was practically born for that moment
Lol he was mostly a sub I think. Look for his assist in the same match. It was just one of those nights for him
Round 1 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/maradona-86-vs-messi-14.2008702/page-136#post-33209718 Bebeto vs. Russia Created two big chance's in the game, assist for the first goal of two, and missed 3 good chance's to score. Straight comparison to Romario is rather easy, both created as much, but Romario scored 1 of his 3 chance's. So it isn't as good, nor as important. Directly comparable performance is quite hard to find, it's not as bad as Ronaldo vs Scotland nor as bad as Forlan vs France. I think it falls in the next category with Zidane, who created something and didn't waste any chance his team being not able to score. World Cup Performance Index, considering statistics, the best (and worst) plays, importance and relation of quality of opposition and own team. Color highlighted as gold, silver, bronze ball, or not in Top 3. Round 1 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/maradona-86-vs-messi-14.2008702/page-139#post-34086262 1. Messi 14 vs Bosnia and Herzegovina 2. Romario 94 vs Russia 3. Maradona 86 vs South Korea 4. Robben 14 vs Spain Ronaldo 02 vs Turkey Schillaci 90 vs Austria Jairzinho 70 vs Czechoslovakia G.Müller 70 vs Morocco 9. Suker 98 vs Jamaica Kempes 78 vs Hungary Cruyff 74 vs Uruguay Pele 70 vs Czechoslovakia Eusebio 66 vs Hungary 14. Zidane 06 vs Switzerland Bebeto 94 vs Russia Rossi 82 vs Poland Charlton 66 vs Uruguay 18. Forlan 10 vs France 19. Ronaldo 98 vs Scotland
What about Leonidas or Wilimowski WC38, Brazil vs Poland, one scored 3 and one scored 4, or Kociss versus South Korea in WC 54 scored a hat trick, Thomas Muller WC14 versus Portgual again scored a hat trick.........
i hope you did not broadcast the third Gif pretending that Bebeto missed a sitter there cause any amateur football player in any small local club would know that that incoming cross is perhaps one of the most difficult shots to pull off. Even Messi would have missed that one. As far as my opinion is concerned, Bebeto has always been a great player for Brazil and often underrated because his stunt in Europe was brief and because he would rather stay at home with his family instead of posing in front of camera making publicity for himself like most popular legends do. Without Bebeto Brazil would unlikely have reached that far into the tournament. Bebeto never walked the pitch like Messi does. Now go back to your usual business to destroy WC players reputation with your logic and reality. It still does not explain how Messi missed his own sitters in WC14 @celito @giles varley @leadleader @Puskas 1988 @lessthanjake
Nice to see others starting to notice Bada Bing holes in his stats. I am glad i am not the only one complaining. Glad to see someone other than me complain for change sake!
Round 2 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/maradona-86-vs-messi-14.2008702/page-136#post-33209821 Bebeto vs Cameroon Scored 1/2 big chances, created 2 big chance's and got opponent a red card at 1-0, when the team scored 3 goals. Romario scored the same 1/2 big chances, was part of one additional goal, but didn't create as much overall. As it is it's a tie for me for quality and importance. World Cup Performance Index, considering statistics, the best (and worst) plays, importance and relation of quality of opposition and own team. Color highlighted as gold, silver, bronze ball, or not in Top 3. Round 1 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/maradona-86-vs-messi-14.2008702/page-139#post-34086262 Round 2 http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/maradona-86-vs-messi-14.2008702/page-139#post-34086695 1. Messi 14 vs Iran Forlan 10 vs South Africa Charlton 66 vs Mexico 4. Jairzinho 70 vs England 5. Ronaldo 98 vs Morocco Kempes 78 vs France 7. G.Müller vs Bulgaria 8. Bebeto vs Cameroon Romario 94 vs Cameroon 10. Maradona 86 vs Italy 11. Robben 14 vs Australia Ronaldo 02 vs China Cruyff 74 vs Sweden 14. Pele 70 vs England 15. Suker 98 vs Japan 16. Zidane 06 vs South Korea Eusebio 66 vs Bulgaria 17. Rossi 82 vs Peru 19. Schillaci 90 vs USA
Your ranking would be more interesting and complete if you include some others relevant performances as Rensenbrik'78, Zico '82, Maradona'90, Baggio'94, Stoichkov'94, Hagi'94, Rivaldo'02,Pirlo'06.
Don't worry, when it comes to complaining to Bada Bing about made up or ridiculous stats, I am right up there !!!
Kocsis scored 3 against eventual; champions West Germany in WC 54, how the hell is he not number 1, Rummenigge hat trick versus Chile in WC82, so many holes in this...... Also round 1, Rensenbrink hat trick against another non other than Iran in WC78, all the goals in a 3-0 win, that must be number 1 knowing how highly you rate Iran !!!!
Maradona 86 vs Messi 14 is like comparing My chess skills to Bobby Fischer of 72. or comparing my football to Leonel Messi of 2010-2012. (excluding world cup and copa america of course) or comparing my physic knowledge to that of Einstein's and Hawking's combined. or it is like comparing my boxing skills to that of Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Vladimir Klichki, Manny Paqiao. While Maradona was shining in the most important points Messi was missing in that types of matches. even injured Pele's play against Portugal 66 was better than or as good as Messi's play against Holland. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/pele-vs-portugal-vs-messi-vs-holland.2017818/ and you are comparing such player's world cup performance to Maradona's 86? I very doubt this is a serious thread, I did not look at the date but I guees it was April 1st joke. EDIT: I have just checked, it was not April 1st joke. The author is @Bada Bing.... Everything is clear. now, after Bada Bing made this comparison I expect his style-friend @JamesBH11 to compare Pele's coaching abilities to those of Bela Gutman, Trapattoni, Mourinho, Sir Alex Ferguson, Feola and Zagallo.
Yes I remember your posts as well. I just think my method is better because I relate individual performance also to the team performance. It's not to say it's faultless, because player doesn't have to give his all if team is performing great, but where does the relative performance then stand? As example I could give Argentina in CA16, if Messi wouldn't have come on the field Argentina very possibly could have drawn the match vs Panama, but Messi made it easy win with hat-trick and pre-assist, yet against Bolivia in non essential match, Messi came on because audience wanted it, or to stretch legs with no goals when it was already decided. This is why it's essential to relate whole tournament with match by match basis, and logically asses how much of the team performance is influenced by the player individually.
Ok, thanks for taking my posts in good spirits anyway mate. It's true I tend to look at the performance in literal terms (but with some perception at least of how easy it is to perform like he does). It's also interesting to think about whether players need to do more than they do in situations where the defending isn't great or the game is open. Even how much more could have been done even if it doesn't seem that hard - Cruyff vs Bulgaria might indeed be an example like that.