I certainly helped to escalate this with my post about winning a gift at a raffle. Not my intention. Clearly, some of you have very strong feelings about scalpers. I really, honestly, cannot understand that, and would be curious to hear a reasonable argument for why they are scumbags and how, exactly, they harm people. The fact that a forum exists that frowns on scalping isn't a reason. But maybe people don't want to have that conversation, which is fine as well.
Scalpers and ticket brokers are part of probably 90% of all pro sports franchises. Yes you hate them in the good times, as they sop up ticket supply. Franchises make efforts to curtail this--you need to prove you are not a bot, limited in how many you can buy, make you buy season seats to get them, etc. But in the bad times, they can help keep a team's cash flow by providing $$$ for unsold seats--and take risk in doing so. If your alternative is to sell to a broker or offer them for 5 bucks with a bucket of chicken, which do you choose? What if you can't go to a game...should you eat your tickets if you can't find a friend to take them? Should you accept payment from a friend if you do? Is the club offering to buy them back or credit you? I have experienced cases--with two different sports franchises--where I tried to sell on the team's own platform, but was prevented from doing so because the franchise still had unsold seats! So in some cases, maybe a ticket broker helps you get out.
I don't expect others to follow my mold. To each their own within the laws. When I can't attend an event, I either give my seats to family/friends or put them back on the market at the same price I paid. But 15, you could make a quick profit off your situation?! Yeah, I could. I just don't like the ethics of it.
Back when the new AAA baseball park was to open on 1300 South I went to a Smith's early in the morning to get tickets for the family for the first game. A guy was already there and I was 2nd in line. I tried to strike up a conversation, but he wasn't very social. A pretty long line had formed when they opened the window. I stood there as that SOB bought up section after section of the prime seats. He was a "ticket broker", which is Utah Legislative language for "scum". I figured there were others at the other Smith's. Anyway, when he finally left I was able to get the best available seats way down the first base line in the outfield and in the nosebleed section. I want to know why I shouldn't dislike the entire sub-species. And, no, that they might occasionally help the club out is not an acceptable reason.
Well, you did call them "scum" in your previous post, which seems a bit harsher than "to each their own"... I also look for family and friends first, and I can see good reasons why you might want to sell tickets at face value (e.g. allow fans with less money to attend, which I applaud). But I don't see why ethics is a good argument against scalping. What makes a ticket different from anything else you might purchase? Are you also against selling your house at a higher price than you bought it for? Why not? What makes a ticket to an event different? That's what I don't see. Why is selling a ticket at market value unethical, when selling anything else at market value isn't?
I'm sure this was incredibly frustrating, and I can see why you would dislike the scalper for doing this. I still disagree that what he did was unethical, but it would make me mad as well. So, thanks for the response. Here's an attempt at explaining why you shouldn't hate scalpers or think of them as a sub-species at all: When the AAA club set prices for their opening game, they clearly set the price too low, relative to the true market value of the ticket. This is why you were willing to stand in line early in the morning - you were paying with time and inconvenience rather than money. You were doing this for yourself and also on behalf of your family. The scalper in front of you was doing exactly the same thing. He was your competition, and that's why it was annoying when he bought the underpriced tickets you wanted. The only difference was that he was doing it on behalf of a lot of other people who were going to pay him for it (in the form of a higher secondary ticket price). And I don't think there is anything unethical or intrinsically bad about paying someone to do something you either cannot or will not do, such as going to Smith's early in the morning to buy underpriced tickets to an event. In fact, the scalper paid a higher price than you did, because he waited in line even longer. Imagine the scalper had not been there in front of you. You purchase tickets for your family right behind home plate. Say they were $20 each. You find out a week later than you can sell them online for $50 each. Meanwhile, the nosebleed seats are still available for $20 each. You ask your kid, "would you rather sit behind home plate, or sit in the nosebleed seats and have $30 to spend on a souvenir hat?" Your kid chooses the nosebleed seats and the hat, so you sell your prime tickets and buy the nosebleed seats. You've just become a scalper. And by scalping your ticket, you've made yourself better off, your kid happy, AND the person who purchased your tickets happy as well because they clearly valued those seats behind home plate more than $50. That's all scalpers are doing, but on a larger scale. If you hate scalpers and want them to go away, lobby sports teams to sell tickets at market prices and they will. But there's no reason to hate the scalper for providing a service and essentially doing the same thing you were doing.
Depending on the game, you could be hosing your friends at face value! Chivas USA anyone at the same price as Henry led NYRB or Beckham/Keane/Donovan Galaxy? Look at how the Jazz price--they put games in tiers. Why? Because that's what the market allows. They can sell the Kings games cheap and the premium games carry a premium price. Even then, you could pay up for the Cavs game and LeBron is sick that night. And look at how RSL will price the Man U game. They will charge a premium price, even though it will be a typical pre-season game. Good action for maybe 45 minutes and then the subs come in. We will sub plenty as well, so as not to risk injuries. To be sure, the atmosphere will be electric...but unless there is some serious Ibra magic, it kind of looks like a great game to sell to someone willing to pay up. If you get tickets as part of your season ticket package, it makes no difference to the club whether you go or sell. If you have to buy, the club sets the price they think is best for them (considering yield and whatever other goals they have)...so same thing. You get the tickets at a price the club is happy with, and then whether you go or sell based on your own personal utility, it makes no difference to the club. When one buys a ticket, as long as they pay, they have fulfilled their obligation. They don't have to physically show up--that isn't part of their end of the deal. So one could argue that if you buy season tickets, and then split them with someone else, then you are cheating. You got a bulk discount but didn't consume all the goods. That would be ridiculous, of course. The club is happy because they have sold 20 games in advance, regardless of firing a coach three games in, regardless of injuries, etc. They get value for selling the season tickets. In turn, the buyer obtains an asset in the form of the right to the seats for the specified games. The club even creates a way for you to re-distribute those seats for a given game (although RSL falls short on creating a listing mechanism, they still allow e-forwarding).
Scalping leads to only one thing, increased ticket prices for the general public. You state that markets dictate prices, but scalping simultaneously reduces general market supply while artificially increasing demand and prices. One person owning a large block of one thing is not true supply and demand, it's a monopoly and hurts the general public. What happens in terms of ticket pricing is that the team sees that it is losing out on money, scalpers manage to sell tickets at higher prices than the set value by the team, so the team, in turn, raises prices....then scalpers raise prices again, then the team.... and on and on. Thus it's the general public that suffers and thus ticket scalpers are scum, period.
The club can see if it is losing out on money by selling out every game. Conversely, the club can see that its pricing is too high for the goods offered when multiple season ticket holders walk on renewing. That is the market. Now, if the team has unsold seats...should they hold them until "real" buyers show up? And how would they tell who is "real" and who is not? If forced to lower prices, the fan "wins" (unless they locked in at the season tix price). But you also want the fan to "win" if they underprice as well (even though the fan doesn't realize they are underpriced...until a broker comes along)? Sounds like a great deal! Is the club an altruistic venture? (PS I know they said they were when they asked for public financing for the RioT...) The answer is no. The club sets prices at a level they are happy with. If someone else recognizes value faster than you, what can you do about it? You could lock in season tickets, you could set your alarm to buy them as soon as they are for sale, etc. Clubs already do have mechanisms to help the individual buyer ("click all squares that have a traffic sign", etc.). They limit purchases at one time. But should they not sell tickets until every last individual has a crack at it? Too many poor decisions like that and clubs tend to move on to new markets (SJ-->Hou) or close down entirely (Chivas). They are a business. A "heads I win, tails you lose" business, for sure (public stadium financing, tax breaks)...but a business nonetheless. Did the Rio Tinto/Xango/LifeVantage proceeds go to dividend the citizens of Utah? Sports teams like to pose as civic assets, and they do contribute to civic pride...but as soon as the money dries up, goodbye. Look at Oakland, St Louis, San Diego in the NFL...this year alone...and the NFL is the only sports league in the US that spins money out to owners from TV--every other league is waiting for values to increase from a new owner wanting in--the valuations look pricey, but the cash flow can be paltry or a money drain.
And just to add--I had been a season ticket holder every year since moving to the RioT. This year, the club decided they wanted to add box seats where mine were for people who wanted to "network". Of course networking was 4x my price, so I decided not to renew because I didn't think it was good value for the money. They made their revenue calculations and I made my expenditure calculations. It's a business. I understand that. I am not angry at the networkers who want to pay up for the privilege of my former view. I think it was a poor business decision when you factor in the cost of building the suites, proffering free food, etc to cater to essentially fair weather fans who, in my mind, detract from the atmosphere, but I get it. I have DirectKick and watch the games from home now. And guess what? I kind of like that...so now the bar is raised for them to get me to come back. But that is the risk they took. Of course if Petke spins the team into gold, I may lose too.
First, let me say that I truly appreciate the thought, logic and time you put into that response. You are much more versed in economics than I am. That's obvious. Nonetheless, I hate that SOB. That's the reality. Your logic cannot overcome the sheer power of human revulsion. I hope he dies a painful death and I hope its soon. Seriously. I think the Bees (or Stingers or whoever they were at the time) set a price that would be affordable to many people in northern Utah. They wanted the club to be embraced by everyone. The ticket broker scum simply bought up the supply, killed the organization's intent to have the game accessible to most socioeconomic levels, and made it unavailable for most. He and his ilk need to go away in something akin to a ticket broker holocaust.
Markets do what markets do. Showing up to a game with a Wayne Rooney rug on my head - now THAT's distasteful...and I've secured tickets to do so.
I went to a Cubs game in 2004, when they were awful. We showed up in the middle of the second inning and bought tickets for $2 each from scalpers, well below the face value of the ticket. Thus, scalpers do not always cause increased ticket prices. QED.
Personally, I don't buy tickets from scalpers but I don't have a problem with them. A ticket to me is like any other commodity that has a finite amount and if someone thinks that they can make money buying and selling the aforementioned commodity, then as long as it's not something illegal (drugs), then more power to them.
I'm not particularly fond of scalpers for the most part either. If I can't give away any extra tickets I have tried to sell them to the scalpers to see what I can get. What I don't really like is scalpers buying up tickets to big events with the ManU game being an example. It can make it difficult for "actual" fans to get to a game without paying a premium that doesn't benefit the team. It's not like buying a home, car or anything else that's tangible or an investment that you hope to see increase in value. It's selling an experience that may never happen again. I get that it's not against the law but I find my response to be resentful in the thought that someone who doesn't appear to really care about what goes on inside the stadium is trying to make money by making it more expensive for those that do care about what goes on inside the stadium. Jealousy also comes to mind. Why didn't I have front row seats to the NBA Finals last year. I could use $50,000.
I'm also not a fan of scalpers, but man it gets incredibly tempting with things like new game consoles. When they tend to quickly sell at 50% more, there's that part of me that wants to buy up a couple to sell, then wind up with a free system later on when there's more in stock. That being said, I've never done it, and when I can't go to a game, I typically give my ticket to my brother so he can take his wife or a friend. Same goes for any time he can't make it.
Interesting comments by all. There's not that many true United fans coming. Mainly because of the distances and it's a Monday night. My group has grown to around 12. All paid travel/flights. True fans that will enjoy your city and hospitality. As previously mentioned the USA branch will have access to a block. Unknown wether it will be enough to supply the demand.
Has there been any further developments re tickets? My group have booked flights,we arrive at 7 pm the night before the game. We may stay until Thursday,but we are still in limbo as there us still no announcement as to the whereabouts of the next game. (Man City). Although the rumour mill is pointing to College Station. Texas A&M I believe. We would enjoy meeting up if you fancy meeting a rag tag bunch of well traveled United supporters.
That's a bit of an odd location for the next game. I went to school there - big stadium, but about 3 hours from most of the big Texas cities.
We thought the same of Ann Arbor But we put 100,000 in there. Not sure City is as well supported as Real Madrid however. You may be right.
Yes. But we've been told College Station is 2 hours from both Houston and Austin. And also central to San Antonio And Dallas. Big market I guess.