Lohnt es sich? €40M für einen Hurensohn! The 15/6 Summer Transfer Thread

You're really trying hard with these people. They are wired to believe Gotze is the best thing since slice bread while Castro and Kagawa are garbage to play beside him when Gotze is the player who shouldn't even be in the team! Where were these people when a midfield combination of Weigl, Castro and Kagawa were doing exploit last season after Gundogn's injury?

And when the beloved Gotze eventually stink the whole place in his natural role, it's still everyone's fault except his! Can you imagine?

 

It's not just about persistence, I just don't like the unfair prejudice about Kagawa.

At least, let's be reasonable while talking about the players!

 

Well.. that's not fair because there has been criticism of him.. I just think that we should realize that if we'll give him all the time he needs, then we should also accept that we're not in the business of challenging for the title -- which is fine if we're building for the future. People may be right as to his ability to improve and be a major contributor to the team, but my gut feeling given what I've seen from him and my GUESS regarding his personality is that it's more unlikely.. but again, it's just an impression. I don't know the guy personally, and so I can be wrong.

Let's see about that.. He still wasn't allowed to play in his natural role, which a lot here claim is the 10 in 4231, alongside Reus and another good winger. That was the only excuse I gave him in my earlier post.

 

Last season the team played a 4-2-3-1, but Weigl was the holder and Gundogan was the creative box to box 8. He started just as deep as Weigl, but had the freedom to join the attack and had defensive responsibility.

One of the reasons the team was better defensively is that Reus/Miki are far better at pressing than Pulisic and Dembele. The other reason is that Hummels especially in the 2nd half of last season is far beyond Ginter/Bartra even when you take in his mistakes. Third issue is that older more experienced players make less mistakes and the team had better chemistry.

This season Tuchel has changed tactics far too often, but when he plays the 4-1-4-1 formation Gotze and Castro have equal defensive responsibility. Both of them don't carry out this role and this leaves Weigl exposed. Dembele doesn't track back like he should which makes things worse and then Bartra/Ginter are not great defending.

Castro's job and Gotze's too play in a similar way to Iniesta at Barcelona. The problem is that does not suit eithers game. They don't do their defensive duties and they are not able to connect the midfield with the attack. They are just useless. Even Barcelone with the magical Messi/Suarez/Neymar struggle to link the defence and attack when they have injuries. To play the way Tuchel wants ignoring requires excellent technical players in every position. Barcelona have greatly missed Alves and now Iniesta. Even with their better players than us they have become beatable.

You are ignoring all the comments and actual thoughts last season. We were able to cover the cracks, but the midfield was not good enough. It still could not link the mifield to the attack.

Castro though is effective in the final third and especially on counter attacks. He has an eye for goal, he has decent movement and can pick a final pass given space.

You are right we are building from the wings, because Tuchel plays Weigl by himself where Gotze/Castro don't help.

So in January we sign a number 8, we switch to 4-2-3-1 and the performances will be much better. Though I repeat had replace Schurrle with Reus and we might still be top.

 

So I think we agree about the fact that Tuchel changes tactics too much, and someone(s) is not defending as they should.
I think we differ on how to fix things, especially on the offense side, where I'd like to see others (Kagawa, Dembele and even Sahin) given a chance at the central midfield positions, possibly alongside Castro.

 

I don't get this post of yours.

He was talking about the games after Gundogan's injuries. That is, how the midfield of Weigl, Castro, Kagawa faired and why we should revert back to that, at this moment but you kept on talking about Weigl, Gundogan and Kagawa midfield.

No wonder you were ranting about Castro even in the game he didn't play last season. I will just say you should help yourself by watching the games played post Gundogan's injury, maybe you will eventually see the good in Castro.

 

Where can we watch old games?

 

I'm talking about bvbslash and liquid10 here. Both believed Gotze can do no wrong.

Also,the point is Kagawa played alongside Castro in the same 4141 tactic last season and wasn't fazed about it, he even looked quite fantastic. So, what stopping Gotze from doing the same?

 

I really don't know..

 

The question is what's stopping Tuchel from playing Castro and Kagawa in the center. We all agree that this is not Gotze's position. Tuchel believed he can create a new Gotze who plays that

 

oops.. post was cutoff: Tuchel believed he can create a new Gotze who plays that position, putting even more load on him than he already has. That's another thing about Tuchel: he asks too much of his players..

 

MatthausSammer answered has answered this question.

I put together past post to show that the Castro/Weigl/Kagawa midfield was never actually that well. The world class other players covered the weakness of the midfield.

Sahin/Weigl or Weigl/Castro were all tried and failed last year. Trying them this year without Hummels/Mkhitaryan will just make things worse.

Dembele is going to be a star. He has everything in his game and can become the best in the world. Instead of messing him about we should focus on teaching him to be the attacking midfielder he can be.

 

I just meant that what you call 4231 asymmetric, someone else will call 4141 asymmetric. You'll say Gundogan is part of the 2 DMFs and is allowed to go forward, while the other one will say he's part of the 4 but he goes back to pick up and distribute..

 

@MatthausSammer Care to name those matches that the team struggled to attack with Castro and Kagawa in the midfield? I really need to thrash out this sweepy revisionism on here.

Take Werder Bremen match for example, we were losing 2-1 with a team that fielded Sahin, Castro and Mkhi in the midfield but as soon as Kagawa was subbed in to replace Mkhi in the middle, we ended up winning the match 3-2 with Kagawa having an assist to his name. Same thing happened in the 1-1 draw match against Liverpool first leg match with Mkhi in the middle while Kagawa was opted out of the team but in the return leg with Kagawa in the middle, we scored plenty of goals and looked great in the attack but were let down by the defence. The 3-0 win against Hamburger is a match that had neither Mkhi, Pea nor Reus in attack but just a midfield of Kagawa and Gundogan who couldn't even finish the match and even after he left the pitch, the team still looked great without him and scored another goal.

I really would like if you can tell me the match in which our attack looked poor with Castro and Kagawa in midfield.

I'm also quite baffled as to why Hummel was even mentioned. The same Hummel who looked rubbish as soon as the rumours started linking him with Bayern was the one who helped the team? He was even a liability. Sokratis was actually our best defender last season and consistently bailed out lot of Hummel's stupidity.

 

Just like I asked @MatthausSammer, I'm also asking you to list the matches where the team looked poor in attack with Castro and Kagawa in the midfield.

If none of you can answer this, then we can lay such revisionism to rest!

 

Don't take the bait @MS [emoji6]

 

Because you know he has nothing to back his claim. I'm quite sure yourself have been searching for those matches but had found none so far!

I'm quite waiting for the bullshit to be put to rest once and for all.

 

We never struggled in the attack. Yes, Weigl and Castro were dominated by Origi and Milner as well as our defence which struggled but our attack looked great.

In fact, we fell off as soon as Ginter and Gundogan came on for Kagawa and Castro respectively. After both players came on, we found it difficult to mount any attack from our end yet was still susceptible to Liverpool's attack.

Yes, Castro had his fault but Weigl and the defence were culpable as well seeing that the introduction of Ginter and Gundogan did nothing to stop Liverpool pressure!

I haven't had an answer to my question though. I mean a match we struggled in the attack like the one we had against Frankfurt match but with Castro and Kagawa in midfield?