Lionel Messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo; better UEFA Champions league career?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Sexy Beast, Jul 31, 2018.

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  1. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    It's about the quality of performance, not just goal tallies.

    Here is a video of all 13 goals Ronaldo scored in the semifinals of CL.



    1. Milan 07 - His header bounces off of the goalkeeper and then suffers another deflection by someone before going in. Not sure how he was even credited with this one?

    2. Arsenal 09 - Fantastic free kick!

    3. Arsenal 09 - Easy finish on the break.

    4. Bayern 12 - Penalty.

    5. Bayern 12 - Routine finish.

    6. Dortmund 13 - Easy finish on the break.

    7. Bayern 14 - Easy finish on the break.

    8. Bayern 14 - Free kick through the wall.

    9. Juventus 15 - Header almost inside the net.

    10. Juventus 15 - Penalty.

    11. Atletico 17 - Nice header.

    12. Atletico 17 - Gets the ball just inside the box and blasts it in. Bad defending.

    13. Atletico 17 - Gets the ball about 12 feet from the net. Takes a good second before shooting it in. Bad defending.

    Goals 3, 7, 8 on the list also came with an overwhelming advantage on aggregate. All in all I'd say his free kick against Arsenal was simply phenomenal and his performance against Atletico was as well although Atleti were horrific defensively in that game. Ironic given their reputation.

    Here is a video of all 4 goals Ronaldo scored in the finals of CL.



    1. Chelsea 08 - Nice header although he was hardly marked.

    2. Atletico 14 - Completely meaningless penalty in 120th minute up 3-1.

    3. Juventus 17 - Gets the ball without much pressure inside the box and then shoots it. It takes a deflection off of Chiellini. May have been an own goal since the trajectory of the ball is clearly affected.

    4. Juventus 17 - Routine finish close to the net.

    I invite others to comment on these goals if they have a different take. There isn't a single performance here that can come up against the Messi masterpieces that are Real 11 and Bayern 15 and probably also United 11 because even though it was weaker performance it was a final. And I truly believe I'm saying that objectively.
     
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  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The fact that you describe Ronaldo's counter attack goal vs Arsenal as an easy finish on the break just goes to show deep your footballing knowledge is

    Turning up(albeit in a fantastic way) in the last 10 mins vs Bayern Munich doesn't get classified as a masterpiece
    The 2nd goal was fantastic yes but the 1st wasn't overwordly and something a player like cristiano has regularly produced in his career

    Ronaldo vs Arsenal away 08/09
    (2 goals+1 assist )in a 3-1 win is definitely comparable to any performance by messi in a champions league semi final (including vs Bayern and Madrid )
    Please enlighten us and explain why a 40 yard freekick is inferior to a dribbling goal vs 4-5 players
    (Ronaldo could not do the latter but messi has also never done the former)

    Messi was at a world class level against (big teams only and in cl semi finals and finals)
    United 08/09
    United 10/11
    Madrid 10/11
    Bayern 14/15
    Juventus 14/15

    Ronaldo was operating at a World class level vs
    Chelsea 07/08
    Arsenal 08/09
    Bayern Munich 13/14(clearly the best player counting both legs with 3 goal involvements including the winning goal)
    Atletico Madrid 16/17
    Juventus 16/17

    Ronaldo also has performances where he was less involved but also far from being anonymous
    Vs Milan 06/07(1st leg)
    Semi Vs Bayern Munich 11/12 (2 goals + 1 assist)
    Semi Vs juventus 14/15(2 goals)

    Ronaldo also has underwhelming performances in semi finals
    Vs Dortmund
    Vs City 15/16
    Vs Bayern 17/18
    (1 goal in 5 matches)

    The only reason messi doesn't have as many unimpressive performances in champions league semi finals is because he has failed quite a lot (especially in recent years )in champions league quarter finals and his team did not progress

    Quarter finals
    Vs atletico Madrid 13/14
    Atletico Madrid 15/16
    Psg 16/17
    Roma 17/18
    (0 goals in 8 matches)

    Semi finals
    Chelsea 11/12
    Bayern Munich 13/14
    (All unimpressive performances and not just by his standards)

    Imo ronaldo was equally impressive to messi in champions league semi finals but importantly also a more consistent performer
    In champions league finals messi has a 100% record (3world class performances in 3 finals Winning all 3 finals)
    While ronaldo has played 6 finals and only been World class in 2 arguably 3(against Barcelona 08/09 he was borderline world class-he was the best performer on a losing team)
    The more finals you play the more chances you have to fail (or impress)
    In any case I give the edge to messi in champions league finals (especially for what he did to united in 10/11 ronaldo has never looked as devastating against an equal opponent in a major final)

    Conclusion
    In an online 2015 UEFA fans poll messi was voted the greatest champions league player in history and I agreed and it wasn't for what he'd just accomplished in 14/15 but rather his complete body of work looked slightly more impressive than ronaldo
    However what ronaldo did in 16/17 and against juventus in 17/18 has forced me to reasses my position and now conclude that he is the epitome of a footballing champion with a never say die attitude ,always pushing the limits of his ridiculous capabilities.
    It's not like I'm saying ronaldo is waaay better but he definitely has an edge and a clear one at that.
     
  3. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    I was not intending to say they are always incorrect. But in arbitrary occasions they are. For example, Castrol rated Ronaldo 2002 world cup higher than everyone since 1970.

    There's also a trend to rate any hattrick 9+ regardless of how awful it is. This one being a prime example

    It was given 10/10 by majority of websites lol
     
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  4. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    I can see most people's comprehension skills aren't very good. We weren't asked to debate. We are asked to put ratings of all their games and average them.
     
  5. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    IMG_1859.PNG
    Greatest International club footballers of all time according to researcher @Dearman
     
  6. Afghan-Juventus

    Afghan-Juventus Member+

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Afghanistan
    Messi took over the game vs Bayern in the last 20-10 minutes. Before his first goal he hadn’t done much that game at all and it was against a injured Bayern team.

    I rate the United performance higher....
     
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  7. DazerII

    DazerII Member

    May 27, 2011
    I am just eagerly waiting for this insightful analysis of this complex game called football from unknown unbiased football experts who are going to tell us how to justify that for some odd reasons that;

    Player A:
    - his team won CL in 2006 where he wasn't a key player and go to Wikipedia to see his participation in that win.
    - His team won the CL against his main opponent's team where his team totally dominated the game. (2009)
    - His team got knocked out in the semis against 10 men Inter Milan (2010)
    - Dominantly won 2011, forget the legend of Ovrebo
    - His team Lost semis against 10 men Chelski (2012), no need to elaborate.
    - His team lost 7-0 I think, no need for analysis but it's worth noting that he didn't participate in the 2nd leg beating (2013)
    - His team won in 2015 where Neymar, and Suarez shined.
    That's it.

    Player B:
    His team lost in the semifinals of the CL in a tournament where he was arguably one of the best player of the tournament. (2007)
    - His team won the CL and he was the best player of the tournament. (2008)
    - His team lost in the final, and he was probably the 2nd best player of the tournament (2009)
    - His team won in 2014 and he was the best player of the tournament
    - His team won in 2016,17,18, and he was the best player of all those tournaments.

    Verdict from Bigsoccer experts;
    Player A has a better CL career than player B.....we don't even want to get to the fact that player A's team in most times couldn't even get to the semifinals. This is pure madness. No matter how many crack heads in the bigsoccer can try to twist it.
     
  8. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Lmfao :laugh::laugh::laugh:
    Fantastic insight as always
     
  9. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    Some of the things you said here are reasonable. Others are off base.

    Of the five Ronaldo world class performances you mentioned. 2008 vs Chelsea wasn't that amazing. He scored a basically uncontested header and the game proceeded to a shootout where he missed a penalty kick. It was a good performance all in all but not legendary at all. It can't be when you miss a PK for the title. 2014 vs Bayern also wasn't a legendary performance at all considering both his goals came with the tie essentially over. Up 3-0 with two away goals playing on the road, his goals came way too late. Especially the second one in the 90th minute up 4-0. 2017 final vs Juve was the best of the three but also not a legendary performance. There's a solid argument to be made that the first goal that deflected off of Chiellini shouldn't have been credited to Ronaldo at all since the trajectory of the ball changed completely and the second goal was a routine finish off of a great ball by Modric.

    You confused me even more when you said Messi was a better CL performer in 2015 but not now. Other than the 2017 run, Ronaldo hasn't really done much to move the needle. How he could go from from "slightly behind" to "definitely has an edge" baffles me...

    The best finals performance between the two of them is clearly 2011 Messi. No real Ronaldo contenders either. The two best semifinals performances between the two of them are clearly 2011 Messi and 2015 Messi. 2009 Ronaldo and 2017 Ronaldo can match any other Messi performances but they still lag behind.

    Maybe you and I have different ways of looking at things. To me a performance can't be legendary simply because someone scored a goal. Legendary means the goal is special, unique, memorable... If we make a top 10 or top 20 goals compilation combining both Messi and Ronaldo CL goals, there will be a ton more Messi goals. That isn't really arguable either. Ronaldo's 40 yard free kick will make the list and the bicycle kick. Probably all others will be Messi goals.
     
  10. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    You guys care too much about this..
     
  11. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Messi wins in Quality of goals you must be kidding
    Besides the few spectacular solo goals the vast majority of messi's champions league goals have been routine finishes (he has also yet to score a single free kick in the champions league despite being Barcelonas 1st choice fk taker for the past 8 years)

    Let's look at Ronaldo's catalogue of impressive and important strikes

    Scorer of one of the greatest bicycle kicks in cl history vs juventus 17/18

    Scorer of one of the greatest freekicks in champions league history vs Arsenal 08/09
    And also vs apoel (champions league quarter final)


    Scorer of one of the greatest headers in champions league history vs Roma 07/08



    Scorer of one of the greatest longshots in champions league history(winning goal to send united to the champions league semi finals)




    Scorer of Some of the greatest counter attack goals in champions league history
    UEFA did a top 10 which included 3 counter attack goals by cristiano ronaldo


    Messi has dinks/lobs(some high profile ones vs Arsenal 09/10,Bayern Leverkusen 11/12 and Bayern Munich 14/15 )and a few spectacular solo strikes vs Lyon 08/09 and madrid 10/11.besides that they are all pretty normal

    Notice how Ronaldo's best ever goals are scored in the latter stages of the champions league
     
  12. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    I said the bicycle kick and free kick against Arsenal would make the combined top 20 goals. Maybe one or two more goals that we're forgetting. Most goals would be Messi goals.

    Anyways you yourself conceded previously that Messi has been better in CL finals. Here's how I would break it down round by round:

    Group Stage: Messi
    Round of 16: Messi
    Quarterfinals: Ronaldo
    Semifinals: Messi (although it's close...)
    Finals: Messi
     
  13. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    I don't want to play these back and forth insulting and discrediting games with you. But just try to look at this from a different point of view. Just try....
    1st you say you are waiting for insightful analysis on unbiased football experts after quoting what i said about doing. What the forum says and not justifying our claims but merely rating performances. So neither did you see the part about sexybeast willing to change his ratings but you still haven't seen what ratings I give both players.

    2nd of all, you claim cristiano ronaldo was the best player in every single tournament that Real Madrid won with Ronaldo on the team. There is no voting for such things and second I don't believe ronaldo was the best player in all those tournaments that Real Madrid won. In addition, not once did you say that Messi was the best player in any champions league tournament. Not once! You said that Neymar and Suarez shined. But not once... not once, did you give credit to other Real Madrid players shining like Luka Modric, Toni Kroos, Sergio Ramos, and Marcelo.

    What we should do is rate the games of all the players. Simply this shows our laziness as fans to take the shortcut and always do what is easy. And take the analysis that is most convenient and easy to understand. You mock such people for the insightful analysis yet you make such remarks and many people on this forum are crying because they don't want to take the time to read leadleaders well thought out posts.

    I will post the ratings of both players soon.
     
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  14. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    #39 ko242, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    This list i made is from 09-10 to 17-18 from both Ronaldo and Messi. I think I did not include maybe 2-3 games from each player because of the lack of footage and I forgot the game. Of course I am open to changing some ratings based on some valid opinions.

    @Sexy Beast i pretty much Used the same ratings that you did from 1-10 (refer back to 1st post of thread).
    However, If Ronaldo or Messi scored crucial goals that were decisive in winning a game and/or the important goal was above normal then I would add a point or 2 even if the overall performance was not good.

    I also stress through looking over all the games over the years, I would say although I believe Messi to be the better player, at this point in their careers, Ronaldo has had more defining moments in the champions league than Messi since he started at Manchester United.

    I think this is a good way to start the debate but I don't think it's the only way. I think it's also important to consider the significance in a player being decisive in a critical game. So for example, maybe one player gets a 7 and an 8 in the semifinals but another player gets a 6 and a 9. They may be the same on averages but I would consider the 6 and 9 better. Just my opinion.

    MESSI
    (Average score from 09-18=.744)

    17/18
    Vs Roma (A), 6/10
    Vs Roma (H), 6/10
    Vs Chelsea (A), 8/10
    Vs Chelsea (H), 10/10
    =.75

    16/17
    Vs Juventus (A), 8/10
    Vs Juventus (H), 6/10
    Vs PSG (A), 6/10
    Vs PSG (H), 7/10
    =.675

    15/16
    Vs Arsenal (A), 8/10
    Vs Arsenal (H), 7/10
    Vs Atlético Madrid (A),
    Vs Atlético Madrid (H), 7/10
    =.733

    14/15
    Vs Juventus (N), 8/10
    Vs Bayern (A), 7/10
    Vs Bayern (H), 10/10
    Vs PSG (A), 7/10
    Vs PSG (H), 7/10
    Vs Man. City (A), 9/10
    Vs Man. City (H), 10/10
    =.828

    13/14
    Vs Atlético Madrid (A), 5/10
    Vs Atlético Madrid (A), 7/10
    Vs Man. City (A), 7/10
    Vs Man. City (H), 8/10
    =.675

    12/13
    Vs Bayern Munich (A), 6/10
    Vs PSG (A), 7/10
    Vs PSG (H), 8/10
    Vs AC Milan (A), 6/10
    Vs AC Milan (H), 10/10
    =.74

    11/12
    Vs Chelsea (A), 7/10
    Vs Chelsea (H), 7/10
    Vs AC Milan (H), 8/10
    Vs Bayer Leverkusen (A), 8/10
    Vs Bayer Leverkusen (H), 10/10
    =.8

    10/11
    Vs Man. U (N), 9/10
    Vs Real Madrid (A), 10/10
    Vs Real Madrid (H), 8/10
    Vs Shakhtar (A), 7/10
    Vs Shakhtar (H), 6/10
    Vs Arsenal (A), 7/10
    Vs Arsenal (H), 8/10
    =.785

    09/10
    Vs Inter Milan (A), 6/10
    Vs Inter Milan (H), 6/10
    Vs Arsenal (A), 6/10
    Vs Arsenal (H), 10/10
    Vs Stuttgart (A),
    Vs Stuttgart (H), 9/10
    =.74

    RONALDO
    (Average from 09-18=.701)

    17/18
    Vs Liverpool (N), 6/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (A), 6/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (H), 6/10
    Vs Juventus (A), 10/10
    Vs Juventus (H), 8/10
    Vs PSG (A), 7/10
    Vs PSG (H), 8/10
    =.72

    16/17
    Vs Juventus (N), 8/10
    Vs Atlético Madrid (A), 6/10
    Vs Atlético Madrid (H), 10/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (A), 8/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (H), 9/10
    Vs Napoli (A), 6/10
    Vs Napoli (H), 7/10
    =.77

    15/16
    Vs Atlético Madrid (N), 6/10
    Vs Man City (H), 5/10
    Vs Wolfsburg (A), 6/10
    Vs Wolfsburg (H), 9/10
    Vs Roma (A), 8/10
    Vs Roma (H), 7/10
    =.683

    14/15
    Vs Juventus (A), 7/10
    Vs Juventus (H), 7/10
    Vs Atlético Madrid (A),
    Vs Atlético Madrid (H), 7/10
    Vs Schalke (A), 7/10
    Vs Schalke (H), 8/10
    =.72

    13/14
    Vs Atlético Madrid (N), 6/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (A), 7/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (H), 6/10
    Vs Dortmund (H), 7/10
    Vs Schalke (H), 7/10
    Vs Schalke (A), 8/10
    =.683

    12/13
    Vs Dortmund (A), 7/10
    Vs Dortmund (H), 6/10
    Vs Galatasaray (A), 8/10
    Vs Galatasaray (H), 7/10
    Vs Man. U (A), 7/10
    Vs Man. U. (H), 7/10
    =.7

    11/12
    Vs Bayern Munich (A), 6/10
    Vs Bayern Munich (H), 7/10
    Vs APOEL (A), 7/10
    Vs APOEL (H), 8/10
    Vs CSKA Moscow (A), 7/10
    Vs CSKA Moscow (H), 7/10
    =.7

    10/11
    Vs Barcelona (A), 6/10
    Vs Barcelona (H), 6/10
    Vs Tottenham (A), 7/10
    Vs Tottenham (H), 7/10
    Vs Lyon (A), 6/10
    Vs Lyon (H), 6/10
    =.633

    09/10
    Vs Lyon (A), 6/10
    Vs Lyon (H), 8/10
    =.7

    For what it's worth, I also calculated Ronaldo's last 2 years at Manchester United.

    08/09
    Vs Barcelona (N), 7/10
    Vs Arsenal (A), 10/10
    Vs Arsenal (H), 7/10
    Vs Porto (A), 9/10
    Vs Porto (H), 7/10
    Vs Inter Milan (A), 8/10
    Vs Inter Milan (H), 7/10
    =.78

    07/08
    Vs Chelsea (N), 8/10
    Vs Barcelona (A), 7/10
    Vs Barcelona (H), 7/10
    Vs Roma (A), 7/10
    Vs Lyon (A), 7/10
    Vs Lyon (H) 8/10
    =.733
     
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  15. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
    Ronaldo and it's not close.
    in knock out stages, it's really telling when other players are almost identical, then it jumps 60% to Ronaldo. :eek:

    In relation to team performance Ronaldo is probably the clutchest player ever in the UCL history (and in all competitions), and Messi is not close.
     
  16. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The irony
     
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  17. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messi VS Ronaldo Knockout phase comparison PART1:

    17-18 Ronaldo: 2 goals in R16 (x10), 3 goals in quarter-finals (x20), 0 goals in semi-finals (x30) and 0 goals in final (x40). 80 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 15 goals, 5 were scored in KO stages.
    17-18 Messi: 3 goals in R16 (x10), 0 goals in quarter-finals (x20), 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in finals. 30 points. Messi finished this tournament with 6 goals, 3 were scored in KO stages.

    16-17 Ronaldo: 0 goals in R16, 5 goals in quarter-finals, 3 goals in semi-finals, 2 goals in the final. 270 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 12 goals, 10 were scored in the KO stages.
    16-17 Messi: 1 goal in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 10 points. Messi finished this tournament with 11 goals, 1 was scored in KO stages.

    15-16 Ronaldo: 2 goals in R16, 3 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 80 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 16 goals, 5 were scored in KO stages.
    15-16 Messi: 3 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 30 points. Messi finished this tournament with 6 goals, 3 were scored in KO stages.

    14-15 Ronaldo: 3 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 90 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 10 goals, 5 were scored in KO stages.
    14-15 Messi: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 60 points. Messi finished this tournament with 10 goals, 2 were scored in KO stages.

    13-14 Ronaldo: 4 goals in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 1 goal in the final. 160 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 17 goals, 8 were scored in KO stages.
    13-14 Messi: 2 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 20 points. Messi finished this tournament with 8 goals, 2 were scored in KO stages.


    TOTAL: ​
    Ronaldo 680 points VS Messi 150 points.
    Ronaldo 33 goals in KO stages VS Messi 11 goals in KO stages.

    (to be continued. All seasons will be compared and added.)
     
  18. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    In the four CL-winning runs for Real Madrid, Ronaldo had essentially zero impact on the outcome of the semifinals and finals in three of them (2014, 2016, 2018). And yet he's somehow supposed to have unanimous credit for those wins.

    I already broke down all of Ronaldo's goals in semifinals and finals of CL. He scored 3 penalties, 2 goals that were clear deflections and probably shouldn't have been credited to him plus 4 more goals that came in garbage time. A few other legit goals were so basic that any world class player could have scored them. Sometimes statistics lie. Ronaldo hasn't been better than Messi in KO stages of the CL. Maybe only for those who read the stat sheet. And of course there is more to the game of football than just goals anyways. Creating chances is worth as much as anything but there are hardly stats to quantify it. This is one of those debates that I totally believe has a right answer but some people keep missing it. What Messi did in 2011 and 2015 trumps anything CR did.
     
  19. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messi VS Ronaldo Knockout phase comparison PART2:
    (Part 1: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36977280 )

    12-13 Ronaldo: 2 goals in R16, 3 goals in quarter-finals, 1 goal in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 110 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 12 goals, 6 were scored in KO stages.
    12-13 Messi: 2 goals in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 40 points. Messi finished this tournament with 8 goals, 3 were scored in KO stages.

    11-12 Ronaldo: 3 goals in R16, 2 goals in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 130 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 10 goals, 7 were scored in KO stages.
    11-12 Messi: 6 goals in R16, 2 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final.100 points. Messi finished this tournament with 14 goals, 8 were scored in KO stages.

    10-11 Ronaldo: 0 goals in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 20 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 6 goals, 1 was scored in KO stages.
    10-11 Messi: 2 goals in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 2 goals in the final. 160 points. Messi finished this tournament with 12 goals, 7 were scored in KO stages.

    09-10 Ronaldo: 1 goal in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 10 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 7 goals, 1 was scored in KO stages.
    09-10 Messi: 2 goals in R16, 4 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 100 points. Messi finished this tournament with 8 goals, 6 were scored in KO stages.

    08-09 Ronaldo: 1 goal in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 2 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 90 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 4 goals, 4 were scored in KO stages.
    08-09 Messi: 1 goal in R16, 2 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 1 goal in the final. 90 points. Messi finished this tournament with 9 goals, 4 were scored in KO stages.

    07-08 Ronaldo: 1 goal in R16, 1 goal in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 1 goals in the final. 70 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 8 goals, 3 were scored in KO stages.
    07-08 Messi: 2 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 20 points. Messi finished this tournament with 6 goals, 2 were scored in KO stages.

    06-07 Ronaldo: 0 goals in R16, 2 goals in quarter-finals,1 goal in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 70 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 3 goals, 3 were scored in KO stages.
    06-07 Messi: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 0 points. Messi finished this tournament with 1 goal, 0 were scored in KO stages.

    05-06 Ronaldo: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 0 points. Ronaldo finished this tournament with 0 goals, 0 were scored in KO stages.
    05-06 Messi: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 0 points. Messi finished this tournament with 1 goal, 0 were scored in the KO stages.

    04-05 Ronaldo: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 0 points.
    04-05 Messi: 0 goals in R16, 0 goals in quarter-finals, 0 goals in semi-finals, 0 goals in the final. 0 points.

    TOTAL:​
    Ronaldo 500 points VS Messi 510 points.
    Ronaldo 25 goals in KO stages VS Messi 30 goals in KO stages.

    (to be continued with conclusive and further observations in part 3)
     
  20. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
    Messi VS Ronaldo Knockout phase comparison PART3 - FINAL ROUND:

    1st part: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36977280
    2nd part: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/li...ns-league-career.2085719/page-2#post-36979163

    A goal in R16 is equal to 10 points, a goal in quarter-finals is equal to 20 points, a goal in semi-finals is equal to 30 points and a goal in finals is equal to 40 points.

    Ronaldo scored 58 goals in UCL's KO stages. He earned 1180 points.
    Messi scored 41 goals in UCL's KO stages. He earned 660 points.
    In UCL's KO stages Ronaldo is twice better than Messi.

    • Ronaldo is UCL top scorer 7 times.
    • Messi is UCL top scorer 5 times.
    They are close but Ronaldo is ahead and considering that Messsi played with dominating side, with more chances for him, you can't deny how better Ronaldo has been.

    • Ronaldo outperformed Messi in 9 UCL seasons.
    • Messi outperformed Ronaldo in 2 UCL seasons.
    • They are tied in 2 UCL seasons.
    Again, Ronaldo is a distant winner.
    • Ronaldo scored 120 goals in UCL. 69% of his goals were scored in KO stages.
    • Messi scored 100 goals in UCL. 41% of his goals were scored in KO stages.
    Again, we see Ronaldo is a clear winner and more decisive. He does not boost his goal tally in less decisive group matches against weaker opponents as majority of his goals were scored in KO stages where as majority of goals of Messi were scored in group matches where they face weaker opponents.
    Ronaldo scores in do-or-die rounds, Messi scores in league-like group matches.

    These are the differences that we are talking here, they are huge. Please let me know what you think?
     
  21. Danko

    Danko Member+

    Barcelona
    Serbia
    Mar 15, 2018
    This rating system rates Ronaldo as either equal or better than Messi in 2009, 2012, and 2015. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

    Any kind of arbitrary ranking that assigns points makes zero sense to me. You can't value all goals equally. Even if you deduct points for meaningless goals, penalties, adjust for opposition etc. it's still hokum because every person will weigh these factors differently.
     
  22. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
  23. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018
    Ronaldo has more goals, has more KO stage goals, has more assists, has more top scorer awards.
     
  24. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    Anybody with the name bada bing in the history of this forum tends to have an unprecedented bias towards any one player. Don't even spend your time trying to reason
     
  25. Bada_bing

    Bada_bing New Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 6, 2018

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