Libertarian Fail

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by American Brummie, May 5, 2011.

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  1. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Am attempting to wrap my head around this part. So far, I am failing.*

    * Not that I think that that last bit couldn't make sense, under some definitions of free, but it doesn't square with his first and third credentials.
     
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  2. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Former. People change their minds.
     
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  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    That's the part that I don't believe. If you set all former Cato staffers who now have something good to say about the welfare state to dancing, I'm pretty sure that they could fit onto the same pin.
     
  4. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I suggest that you listen to the Podcast. Pretty interesting and revealing. The guy was a big Libertarian/ Ann Rand believer and explained where he came from and where is it now as far as his ideological and philosophical frame of references.
     
  5. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Being in the same boat as this fella, I get it completely. Maybe not as hardcore but I have had a similar change in philosophy, especially over the last 2 years.
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I've never listened to a podcast because I am too impatient. Show me the transcript! But perhaps I will make an exception in this case. The guy does sound as if he has interesting things to say.
     
  7. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was enlightening to listen to him. Obviously he is still on the right but he also recognizes that the Libertarian ideas are totally out line with reality.
     
  8. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Curious how one flips from "the magic of free market cures all" to "here, have some gub'mint cheese"
     
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  9. taosjohn

    taosjohn Member+

    Dec 23, 2004
    taos,nm
    Got to say, Randism, Cato-- that's nowhere near "center right" to me. That's how we got into this mess, not where we were when it still made sense...
     
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  10. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Gotta listen to that podcast, but I think the point is that the guy has rejected much of those beliefs. Because otherwise, yeah.
     
  11. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He left Cato and created a new "center right" think thank. The dude has acknowledged that "free market" is not an universal panacea and even mentioned the Nordic countries where while being "welfare states" are also great for business, economic freedom and innovation.
     
  12. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not CATO but the Economist did have this article a few months back.

    Back to basicsCapitalism needs a welfare state to survive

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/07/12/capitalism-needs-a-welfare-state-to-survive
     
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  13. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    He joined it. He didn't create it.
     
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  14. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just had a look at the Niskanen Center. It is almost like a Who's who of never Trumpers republicans....lol
    They have some interesting papers and research that could easily been written by a liberal think tank. The most "shocking" part, they have received a $ 500K grant from the Open Society Foundation, the George Soros organization. :sneaky:
     
  15. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Soros = radical Left. This is a false flag! :cautious:
     
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  16. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Nothing but a bunch of flip floppers. I stay true to my beliefs even as they are going down in flames while carrying a can of 92 octane! :eek:

    HAIL GRIMES!!!
     
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  17. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
  18. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's been a long time since I read his work, but I think that Hayek, author of The Road to Serfdom, argued that a welfare state wouldn't necessarily be ruinous to liberty. So he's not the first "libertarian" to have second thoughts on the idea that The Market Solves Everything HALLEJULAH!

    Haven't listened to the podcast apologies if I'm being Captain Obvious.
     
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  19. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Attempts at training computers to have a sort of para-human global perspective have been partially successful, but the majority no sooner realize that a vast variety of humans exist before they start spontaneously generating zero-sum statements fraught with chillingly undefined terms, such as, ‘The open market will end racism,’ and, ‘In a truly just society, men and women are equally free to thrive or starve.’ I don’t even know what that means, but once an AI gets to that point, it seems to be only a matter of time before it’s repeating ‘Taxation is theft’ until it self-destructs. :D
     
  21. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    But it would have freedom from friends.
     
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  23. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    From the enemy of my enemy is my friend dept, here's hoping Amash crushes whatever stooge Trump puts up against him in the primary. Will be interesting to see what his constituents do as the scandals pile up and Trump's ratings drop.

    Trump and his top advisers have discussed the prospect of backing a primary challenge to the Michigan lawmaker — a highly unusual move for a president against a member of his own party that would effectively amount to a warning shot to other Republicans thinking of crossing him. The conversations come as the billionaire DeVos family, which has deep ties to the administration and remains one of Michigan’s most powerful families, has announced it will cut off the congressman. That move could send a signal to other conservative donors deciding whether to invest in Amash.

    Some troubling signs tho. Maybe he goes IC:

    The discussions about Amash come as primary opponents have begun to circle. Jim Lower, a 30-year-old state legislator who’s aligned himself with the president, recently announced his candidacy for the Grand Rapids-area seat. A poll released on Tuesday by MIRS News, a political news service in the state, showed Amash trailing Lower by 16 points.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/12/trump-amash-1361452
     
  24. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I keep reading his name as "Amish." Now that would be a good idea for a sitcom...

    An Amish congressman sitting on all these committees, debating the issues of the day like why Google rigged the iPhone so it would only show anti-Trump poll numbers. He wouldn't be a wallflower, backing down to the moneyed interests. Opponents would threaten him and he'd respond with quips like, "Yea verily! Thee and which army?
     

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