Leveraged Sellout - The Arsenal Finance Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by Rewinder, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    You realize that they are talking about the 1980s, right and said that he got there by recording his father’s real estate as his, but that only came true about 20 years ago. So, what say you about the last 20 years?

    I deal with NY financiers and developers weekly. The idea that he was worth $5 million is very hard for me to believe. But, he, who really cares, right? I’m not overly interested in counting his pockets.
     
  2. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    That’s a lot of mudslinging. Have anything to base that on?
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Exactly

    But also in terms of the standard models of Hotel operations and branding - his business makes little sense.

    In theory he is an asset light brand - but what value does he bring compared to one of the proper commercial brand names?

    His developments are shady as feck
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Didn't he go bankrupt multiple times in the 90s?

    IIRC the reason he was rejected from US financing is he had no equity against which to secure loans.
     
  5. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    Casinos
     
  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    So how did he go bankrupt but also have vast wealth?

    Lets face it - what we don't really know is what his net worth is

    But what we have seen is that he has lots of debt - and that's only what we know about
     
  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    yea dawg, he didnt have the money in the 80s. You can believe what you want but that guy who works for Forbes, who you said several times is reputable, said he dug deeper and found Trump was full of shyte and this is after he wasnt gonna put him on to begin with.

    There is also audio of Trump's "accountant" calling dude and saying Trump has money. That accountant turned out to be Trump himself.

    teh basis of his forbes list rating is down to this badgering of the employee.

    Trump took a lot of Ls and cannot buy property in Manhattan because of those Ls. Like I said fam, do your googles. Its all out there and on reputable sites.

    Last 20 years man hasnt done much of anything except sell crap products and license his name.

    I highly doubt Trump is a billionaire and there is no way he can afford to buy Arsenal or any major sporting entity.
     
  8. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    He did not go bankrupt. One of his shell entities did.
     
  9. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    #1309 wanye_stirrear, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    Okay. Just remember that your own article says he realized that wealth 20 years ago when his dad passed.

    But honestly, his dad made his money in BK. Trump made his in Manhattan, and you can see the assets he has there. You can hate the guy, but acting like he isn’t uber rich is kinda silly.
     
  10. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Rich or not fcuk that guy
     
    Shen-O, danielh and wanye_stirrear repped this.
  11. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Boy this thread is fully off the rails...lol. But you guys do realize that tax returns don’t necessarily show assets and definitely not all ones assets or debts. It’s near impossible to determine ones net worth accurately if they want to obscure it, but I doubt Forbes is a factor of 10 off.

    I’m no fan of trump, and I have my doubts about his wealth but the speculation is just that.

    And if he did buy arsenal, it would be a Huge success. ;)
     
  12. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The bankruptcies are somewhat overstated: the Trump org treats each investment as its own entity (usually as an LLC), and the bankruptcies tended to be entity-specific. Trump's track record isn't great, but it's not as abysmal as it's made out to be. He's just a mediocre-developer with a gift for self-promotion.

    Hard to believe he wasn't worth at least a billion before he announced his candidacy though: too many hard assets and too many licensing deals that gave him money for essentially nothing.
     
  13. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, tax may not have been my highest grade in law school, but I'm aware of what returns do and do not show and how things can be creatively manipulated. I did not mean to imply that his tax returns would provide a definitive answer as to his net worth. But they would still provide more clues than relying on his own puffery.
     
  14. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Wait, when is $250 million net work not uber rich?

    I didn’t say he was worthless, I said he not a billionaire and could not afford Arsenal or any big sporting entity.

    He apparently only owns five buildings in Manhattan.

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/what-means-put-trump-on-front-building/
     
  15. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Doubt he could afford Arsenal, but owning five buildings in Manhattan probably makes someone worth well over a billion these days (depending on debt, of course).
     
  16. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    I really don’t want to keep talking about this, so I will let this by my last. Ownership of real estate is public information. That website missed out of many things he owns, but they might only count what is in his name and not count things in the name of his various trusts and estates. He also owns RE in other boroughs as well.

    This is from the City of NY’s website. I just searched by his name and restricted it to those documents in which he was named the buyer (Party 2). I did it for ‘Trump’ as an individual and ‘Trump’ as a company.

    According to Forbes, the lease he owns at 40 Wall Steeet is worth almost $400 million aline, and his Niketown building (6 East 57th) is worth another $235 million. Trump Tower (725 5th St.) is worth another $245 million, and his stake in 1290 Avenue of America is worth almost $400 million. Forbes also accounts for debt in these valuations. Those four properties alone are worth over $1 billion. I don’t think people really understand NY real estate.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    One example.

    There are plenty of others.

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/white-house/article210477439.html

     
  18. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    You asked me about money laundering
     
  20. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Idk if Trump is laundering money, but he’s sold an abnormally large amount of property to LLCs. If you were going facilitate money laundering, that’s a good way to do it.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It's also why so many of his more recent EM developments don't appear to have any commercial financing despite historically low interest rates
     
  22. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    #1322 wanye_stirrear, Jun 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    This is true, and personally, I am not a fan of the President, so him being a money launderer would just be another bad description I would put into a long list of bad names I would call him, so it wouldn’t surprise me.

    With that said, buying large scale property through an LLC isn’t unusual. Actually, it’s more commonplace than putting one’s name on the deed. That in no way suggests money laundering by itself.
     
  23. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't think the accusation is that Trump is laundering his own money by having LLCs own his property.

    The accusation is that he's laundering money for others, and selling lots of condominiums to large numbers of LLCs. That looks like it could be money laundering.
     
  24. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    I don’t even know what that means.

    I am saying that Russians or anyone else using LLCs to purchase property doesn’t mean something nefarious is going on.
     
  25. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    I think the inference is if banks won't lend him money for the purpose of making money. What are the motivations of these LLCs, money laundering possibly, even regular condo sales typically have a high risk for money laundering. And, that is with "reputable" developers.

    To be honest I don't really care to much either way resource heavy individuals have been breaking the law since Gilgamesh. I'm more concerned with his policy.
     

Share This Page