Lev Yashin's Ballon D'or

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by schwuppe, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    As probably most of you know Yashin is the only goalkeeper ever who has won the European Footballer of the Year award (1963).

    The thing I've wondered was - how did he manage that? A GK would certainly have to carry his team to the World Cup/EURO and or CL title to receive this trophy today so I researched what exactly happened back in '63.

    #1 some facts about the voting: The results of this voting were published on 17 December 1963. There were 21 voters, from Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, England, France, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Soviet Union, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, West Germany and Yugoslavia.


    Yashin recieved votes from 17 people, 11 1st places. Rivera had 5 #1 and 16 votes overall.


    #2: What happened in 1963?
    NT - There was no World Cup and no European Championship.
    Yashin played 4 games for the UdSSR overall in '63. Two against Italy in the EURO '63 qualifier where they advanced. The 1/16 final so to say.


    Club - Milan won the European Cup over Benfica. Tottenham the Cup Winners' Cup. Dynamo Moscow participated in neither of those, but won the domestic championship which is rather irrelevant.



    Neither of those events make a guy from Luxembourg or Portugal vote for Lev Yashin as the best player in Europe, so what was it?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_v_Rest_of_the_World_(1963)
    Sublime performance, there's a DVD available if anyone is interested.


    So is there any merit in my conclusion that the only reason a GK ever won the Ballon D'or was a remarkable effort in a lost exhibition game?

    I wasn't around in '63 as most likely 99% of the board. This makes comments from the 1% who were highly appreciated.
     
    ko242 repped this.
  2. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    It may have been an exhibition game, but it was arguably the best exhibition game ever in terms of players.

    I've got that game on DVD and it has an unbelievable number of stars involved. Di Stefano, Puskas, Kopa, Djalma Santos, Law, Gento, Masopust, Eusebio in addition to Yashin and of course Banks, Moore, Charlton, Greaves etc for England.

    Yashin in particular made a number of saves from Jimmy Greaves which were remarkable. Greaves talks a fair bit about that game in a book of his and the impression Yashin made.

    It's not unknown though for such a game to have a big impact. One of the major factors behind Stanley Matthews win in 1956 was his performance against Nilton Santos in a friendly that year.
     
    ko242 repped this.
  3. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    Maybe it is case of the newer generation looking into past through their own lens, from what I understand in that time friendlies were really no joke because unlike now teams and players didnt play abroad much and players especially those from communist nations didnt go to wembley's, san siro's etc. that often therefore players used to give all in those friendlies, while nowadays a kinda laugh when for instance barcelona plays ac milan in san siro and people call it an "away" game for barca! Although technically correct but really top teams are so accustomed to these staudiums that the difference is negligable while back in the day an away game had a totally different meaning. The closest to that nowadays is Copa Libertadores.
     
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  4. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    About that game where can I find it?
     
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    I got it from a guy called Breitner (on BigSoccer), have a look in the Collector forum for him. Buyer beware etc, but I have found him a good trader in the past.
     
    ko242 repped this.
  6. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    There are various sellers on amazon.

    My point is not the way 'friendlies' are regarded - as I'm well aware that their importance changed over time (see England v. Hungary 53) - but rather the fact that he won based on one single game.
     
  7. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Bolzplatz
    Yes it's a bit puzzling. Although I have heard that his record in the Soviet domestic league in 1963 was truly outstanding (in terms of goals conceded). Not sure exactly but I think this did play a role back then.
     
  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    You're right.
    14 goals in 38 games while leaguewide GPG was 2,5.

    Dynamo Kiew recieved 11 goals in 36 games 4 years later though.
     
  9. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    The thing is, is that a single game in those days could significantly skew perceptions of players.

    You might only see Eusebio, Suarez or Mazzola one time in an entire season. Even as a football journalist you'd be unlikely to see a single foreign based player multiple times unless it was a WC year (even the Euros at the time were effectively two games long). So how they performed in the one game you did see would be massively significant.
     
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    If all else fails this Play.com page has it on sale - http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/-/2595/1862/-/8903294/England-v-The-Rest-Of-The-World-1963/Product.html
    The details aren't extensive but I assume it's the full game. I noticed Wikipedia has contradictory details to the Play.com description, which says Pele played. Maybe Wikipedia is wrong or doesn't list all the Subs. I seem to remember seeing something of the game including or exclusively Yashin making a few saves on Youtube, but there doesn't appear to be a specific video with even highlights of the game - maybe what I saw was in a Yashin compilation.
     
  11. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Pele didn't play in the game. He was included I think in the initial squad that was called up, but he pulled out. Not entirey sure why.
     
  12. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011

    You guys just wasted your money.:p Here is the free game http://tvali.eu/index.php?action=watch&v=199487. Yeah I know Im the master of finding rare games for free :D
     
  13. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    I wish he had play official games for Flamengo.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    Just finished watching the 1st half and the commentator just said "Perhaps it is not the strongest side (Rest of the world) but one great disappointment was the fact that the fabulous Pele from brazil was not allowed by his club to make the trip"
     
  15. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I've been watching it too - good find!
    I'm just into the second half at the point Greaves scores a very nice goal that is not allowed as it's pulled back for a foul on him. Yashin saved everything that came his way in the first half and another goalkeeper came on to play the second half, with Puskas coming on to replace Eusebio too.
     
  16. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    The 1-2 to the goal was great, and what I heard before about Greaves was true, he doesn't have the term "shots off target" in his book.
     
  17. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Well, first of all, it is your "assumption" that the 1963 exhibition game was the "ONLY REASON" for Yashin to win his 1st (ever) ballon dor as a GK.

    The fact that after WC62, many had thought Yashin career (as a great GK) would be finished (passed his best and done) as he was not sharp as usual in a few games there!

    So in a way, his great performance in that game EurovsRest-of World was a final nail to seal his greatness after almost 10 WORLD CLASS seasons as GK winning 5 championship, 1xEuro 1960 and 1xOlympic cup along with 150 PK save record and >270 cleansheets :eek:. That year was an "off year" between big tournaments of WC and Euro champs, that coincided with no true great performers during the season, hence like a Great TRIBUTE to a greatest GK of football historyLev deservedly won it eventually . My 2cents :p

    Here is the comment from Lev's closest competitor for the Best GK in Football:

    Renowned for his athleticism and bravery during a lengthy career, Lev Yashin has battled with Gordon Banks for the No.1 jersey in most pundits' all-time world XIs.

    In fact Banks once admitted he would have included Yashin in his pick of the world's best team.

    "Everything that Lev Yashin did was of the highest order," Banks said.
     
  18. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Aside from the things he won your records make very little sense as Yashin played only 250 games up until 1963.

    400 overall, absolutly no way the cleansheet number or the PK save record is close to be true.
    10 World Class seasons is a wild guess.
     
  19. Gregoriak

    Gregoriak BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 27, 2002
    Bolzplatz

    I looked up my source (IFFHS book on the greatest players of the 20th century) and they state that Yashin set a record in 1963 by conceding only 6 goals. He played 27 games in 1963 for Dynamo Moscow. So his reserve keeper let in the other 8 goals.

    Other statistics the IFFHS mentions are:

    -The first Soviet goalkeeper to manage 100 clean-sheets in the Soviet league (overall he managed 160 clean-sheets in 326 league games).
    - 19 clean-sheets in domestic Cup games
    - 30 clean-sheets in international games (USSR)
    - in 1965-66 he managed 841 successive minutes without conceding a goal (the Soviet record however is 1,123 minutes held by Viktor Bannikov)
    - his first league game and his last one are separated by 20 years and 59 days (between 1950 and 1970)
    - he was aged 40 years and 312 days when he last played a league game (the record is held by Konstantin Liaskovsky of CSKA Moscow).
    - he was voted "Best Soviet goalkeeper" each year between 1956 and 1968
    - in 1963 he was voted "second best athlete" of all Soviet Union (not just football)
    - he was never voted "Soviet player of the year" though
    - he never played in a European Cup game
     
  20. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He only conceded 6 goals (which is impressive) but has anyone actually assessed the attacks that he had to face in that league? The impression I'm getting, at least based on comme's post, is that the media must have placed too much emphasis on that international friendly. At least Stanley Matthews in 1956 carried Blackpool to second place. He didn't have much of a support crew.

    The point I'm trying to make is that Yashin didn't face the forwards the likes of Zoff and Banks faced week-in, week-out throughout their careers (not specifically in 1963 because Zoff was an unknown quantity). Some people could use the excuse that Zoff was surrounded by good defenders but compare the Serie A forwards Zoff faced and the forwards Banks faced in the English First Division and I'm sure that they were better than the ones Yashin faced in the Soviet Top League.
     
  21. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    The thing is he never really showed up against the only top competition - WORLD CUP.

    I heared he was great in '58, some matches are even available on video haven't seen them yet so could anybody confirm?
    '60 are just two games, he flat out sucked in '62 and I wouldn't say he played like the best goaltender of all time either in '66.
     
  22. dor02

    dor02 Member

    Aug 9, 2004
    Melbourne
    Club:
    UC Sampdoria
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I must admit that I haven't seen those games in full but some of the goals he conceded in 1962 were cheap and his positioning could have been better for the goals in the Euro 64 Final.

    I have also read that he was great in 1958 especially against England in the 2-2 draw and the loss Brazil, which could have been greater than 2-0 if it wasn't for him. He played great at England 66 and I heard that he was the reason why Yugoslavia only scored one goal in the Euro 60 Final.
     
  23. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Well talent is talent. Pele, Garrincha, Rivelino, Jaizinho, Zico ... did not need to go out to big Europe leagues to prove their talents - in fact Zico did 1 season)

    Even Bank also admitted Lev was a monstrous talented GK. It's always hard to clarify in black and white that Lev was better than Bank, or Zoff ... but most experts and oldtimers perceived it that way ...

    Most younger fans would quickly put Zidane and Messi alongside with Pele/Maradona ... for they had NOT watched the latters !
     
  24. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    There are some differences here. First we have more footage of all the players you've mentioned showing how great they are.

    Second I have a hard time believing most experts and oldtimers have seen more than twenty games of Yashin. And you need much more games to evaluate a GK compared to an attacking player.

    On the internet I've seen quite a few opinions (or ridiculous believes), but I've never seen any poster having Yashin lower than #1 on a best GK ever list.
    I'm not questioning Yashin's greatness but it will remain a mystery for me why he is seen as the clear cut 100% #1.
     
    ko242 repped this.
  25. burco

    burco New Member

    Apr 10, 2011
    In my opinion those doubting Yashin's status because of the quality of his league remind of those who do likewise to SA legends but unfortunately there isn't any Russian or former soviet poster who can reply or counter these arguments and nonetheless an old timer who saw Lev week in and week out, so I guess we should just leave it right there.
     

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