Late last year in this forum, I created a similar "why bull fighting bothers me" thread, for people like shwantzme. They prefer to post their rants here instead... You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jackrock again.
I know exactly WTF I am talking about. The fish live out their lives in their natural habitat and are not bred (abused)so that they will be as nasty as possible. I have never heard of trout being spawned to stock streams that are not their natural environment. If you have an example of animals being hatched, bred...etc and then placed into habitats "they do not belong in", I would view those situations in the same way that I do bullfighting. Sure, the bulls is buthcered and the meat given to people, but that is not the reason behind the bullfight. It is simply a side effect. We wear leather but I challenge you to show me any farm that raises cows for their leather. So what. This is irrelevant. Yes they are. They are born and bred specifially for entertainemnt purposes. Why else would you want them to be " bad azz muther ********in hombres"? They are not dairy animals and certainly are not bred for their meat. And I wonder how they do that. I cannot see how you train an animal to be that way without systematically abusing it in the same vein that pit bulls are trained to be good fighters. So what.How is this relevant? Did I say anything about rodeos? Just for the record, I am not a big fan of those either. It's not just that they are killed slowly, it is because they are killed for ENTERTAINMENT. What would I do? I wouldn't give the matador any weapons. Why should they have weapons and the bull has none? Don't give me the weak argument that the buill has horns for weapons. The horns are part of their bodies. The MULTIPLE swords and capes that the matadors use are not their natural defense mechanisms. You mention that the death is always tragic. Why would you take enjoyment out of tragedy? Being a carnivore has nothing to do with pitting strength against another for entertainment and has everything to do with what the organism eats to live. BTW, humans are not carnivores, we are omnivores. When it comes to pitting one's strength against another, I don't see any other species out there after their youth killing other animals for the challenge of pitting one's strength against another. The young do it in order to learn how ti hunt. They certainly do it within their own species, but your opponent is not killed and it has everything to do with hierarchy and the survival of that species for future genrations. natural attribute manufactured weapon natrual attribute manufactured weapon The only strength we have against the bulls is our intelligence. We use that to manufacture the devices we need to overcome our prey. When it comes to survival, I have no problem with that and it includes manufacturing machines to raise, kill and slaughter animals for food in the most humane way possible. The method used to kill the bull in the Corrida is not humane and the reason the animal is killed has nothing to do with food. For one, gazelles cannot file a complaint and I would bet my life on the fact that if they were given the opportunity, they would. Wouldn't you? Two, the lion is using intelligence in the way it hunts (ambush) and their natural weapons (fangs, claws and strength) to kill the gazelle strictly for food. They are not trying to pass the time with a pastis and some tapas while watching the animal get killed. They are surviving. The ONLY reason they kill is to continue to live and that is exmplified by the fact that when they are full, all they do is sleep and groom themselves. They do not kill to entertain other lions. Matadors do. How is that noble? You are comparing apples to oranges again. How am I pssing on your parade? What the hell do you care about what I think? I am simply expressing my opinion. You can choose to read my posts or ignore them, so I don't see how they can affect your enjoyment of this thread. Obviously, you have chosen to read them and feel the need to respond. You tell me that I have not been willing to see this from someone else's point of view, but I have and I find it repulsive. I do understand why people like this form of entertainment, I just don't agree with it. I think you are the one who is guitly of not looking at it from someone else's perspective.
Why would I choose to post there? If you were say, protesting something like abuse of animals, would you do it in font of PETA's headquarters?
In California....Trout are constantly being stocked in man-made lakes, low elevation streams, and extremely shallow (inadequate) pools for a few old geezers.... that think they are cool naturists with their fly fishing rods and all sorts of artificial equipment.
Jackrock said they are put into "streams" where they don't belong. I look at the stock pond style of fishing the same way I do bullfighting and have never fished in one and never will.
At least in Southern California, many of the streams have been "created" / redirected by Army Corps of Engineers / National Park Rangers. What is often left is an extremely shallow & narrow collection of pools with little cover, little prey, and where trout would never make it to.... making them easy prey. Most fishermen that I have encountered support Catch & Release and use Barbed Hooks. Where do you stand there?
This whole argument is fine but I am not a fisherman so it is wasted on me. I have been deep sea fishing and am positive that the gulf stream is not stocked with tuna and mahi mahi
If it is not their natural habitat and they are literally boxed in, then I think it is not a sport and counteractive to the whole idea of being a "sportsman" and it really is not much different than the idea of a bullfight. My brother likes to go hunting for wild boar. He goes to a private, fenced in ranch where they nuse dogs to corner the animal before he shoots it. I always ask him haow he can consider himself a hunter when the animal has no chance and the dogs are the ones doing the hunting.
For the most part, I don't fish. When I have, it has always been on a natural body of water while camping and we were catching our dinner. Been deep sea fishing a few times and we all ate every ounce of our bounty Even if I dod catch and release, I don't see how you can equate that to bullfighting. The fish is not slowly killed and lives to see another day. I have caught fish and let them go because they were too small to eat.
i've never seen such a speiceimen of arrogance and ignorance. 1) it's called put and take programs. The DNR realizes people that pay good money for fishing licens and equipment and are not going to do it if they don't catch fish. They stock streams w/ hatchery trout, joe blow catches trout, has trout dinner. DO YOU FECKIN HOMEOWRK BEFORE YOU RUN YOUR MOUTH 2) the leather thing is the stupidest thing i've ever heard, It defies deffinition. YOu justify the harvest of leather because the cows are butchered en mass for food? wearing leather is ok because the animal is gonna die anyway? on the other hand a young man risking his life against a mature fear inspiring brute is cruel? .... 3) the last thing about hunting is not really your fault. You obviously have no concept of the exhileration of the chase, the conquest. You have already been brainwashed by animal activest groups, and could never understand that hunting is not murder, it is not mere killing of something else. You are inferior and to try to explain it to you would be an insult to hunters everywhere. Alas , I shall try. Look at yourself. If you went into the woods, and killed an animal that you were gonna eat, by yourself; that is, if you had the skill, cunning, nerve and luck to actually end its life yourself, then proceed to have enough knowledgeof its anatomy to skin and dress the animal so it didnt spoil, then trek back out of the woods with your prey, then also have enough culinary knowledge to know what parts are best for steaks, what parts should be ground, or maybe stewed, and be able to avoid relying on any one else to do so, would you have no sense of self reliance? Would you rather mortgage you life away for wages, in wich you pay for a steak at a grocery that someone else was paid to kill, butcher, shrink wrap, and deliver than hunt? Hunting involves death, that is true, but the point is about that self reliance. A hunter is equal parts naturalist, predator, butcher, and chef. You are proving that you dont HAVE to rely on others. Sure your not mountainman jed, you don't live like this day in and day out, but you have the ability to do so if needed. If all this fails to penatrate that little urban peabrain of yours then there is no way for you to understand the joy of the hunt or conesquently bullfighting. The only thing i can see is that hunting is done in nature. Is that it? Is the main gripe that bullfighting is done in front of crowds?
You are dumber than the other dude. You are dumber than the dumbest jackass. Where do you get this info, directly from you ass? Fish are cold blooded, and do not have the same nervous system as mammals. Released fish might be put off feeding for a time, but this anguish in pain thing is malarky. Its true, I have seen fish caught several times in the same day. A fishes digestive system will dissolve a fish hook in a matter of day. When a fish is brought haveing swallowed a single hook you cut the line as close to its mouth as you can. the fish will be fine. you can't mess with me on this, i live to fish, i have done it super-frequently since i was 4. You are a fool, and i also suggest you have a minimum of knowledge of what you post about before you exhibit your stupidity.
Funny how you call me arrogant and them resort to personal insults to make your point. Do you not realize how arrogant you sound?
excuse me, but have you met juan? seen his posts? He is is the ulitmate in knowing just enough about a subject, any subject, to get everything about it wrong. Just a few highlights were his fasination w/ penis's, his online guest book that found its way into world rivalries, his constant sniping at central americans. I could go on for pages. really. If he had been spouting off about pirate ships, or hair gel, or shoes, i wouldnt have said boo. what he claimed was factually wrong. If he's gonna post something as a fact and it's worng he should be called on it. If he would have said, "in my opinion, fishing isn't good because etc etc." then great. he is excersing his ability to be a pusskins, but hey, its his thing. to make sweeping statments as fact and not just his opinion is a different matter. edit, Im done. the afficianados don't mind you not likeing the object of their interest. This has become a dead horse. Nobody's gonna change their opinion on this topic.
Maybe you should reread your posts then. Stocking a stream is completely different than raising an animal to be mean and then forcing it into a manmade arean to be tortured then killed I never justified anything of the sort. I simply used the analogy ststing that your example of the aniaml eventually being eaten is similar to someone justifying leather because the animal will be killed anyway. Get it? I never said it is. As a matter of fact, I never even brought up the subject of hunting until you did. I will have you know that I have been hunting for deer, but I will not go hunting when the only thing that happens is a pack of dogs cornering an animal so I can take target practice at it. BULLFIGHTING IS NOT HUNTING! IF YOU THINK IT IS THAN YOU ARE EVEN STUPIDER THAN YOUR POSTS INDICATE. None of the details of the hunt that you describe occur when it comes to bullfighting. As for you calling me arrogant and having a pea brain, that just makes you look like an a.s.shole. I don't know you so cannot determine whether or not that is true, but based on your posts, I am confident that it is.
This is a wonderful thread. It would be even more wonderful if a moderator would delete the whole pro/anti bullfighting argument.
I know your a sportsman and fisherman, so you´ll appreciate the following post: After Juan Pmed me his lil Marriage link, and I in turn, Forwarded it to a few key people...I literally made Juan famous. Literally. One of my best Fishing moments...in everyones favorite fishin hole...World Rivalries.
They have a butcher area right at the arena. So when the bull is dragged out of the stadium it is immediately butchered and taken to market the same evening from what I understand.