COnsidering there have been zero in the past i won't hold my breath. Unless you consider us signing out of contract Salzburg reserve player or a guy that was about to retire from Salzburg but came here on "loan" instead, as talented prospects. I know the RB people like to talk a big game when the multiple teams academies and helping each other goes..but facts are none of these teams are there to help the other and you wont see much movement between them.
Isn't it a bit hasty to be making categorical statements? Just because it has not happened yet does not mean that it will never happen. The academy in Brazil was not established until 2007 and the one in Africa even more recently, I believe. The Leipzig team has been in operation for less than a year.
Thats right, Red Bull want our club as their upcoming draft horse, so the best players are not destined to leave Leipzig. Talented young players will be educated in the own second team (7th division), where they`re needed for this teams promotions, too. So the only scenario where players transfer to New York is when they`re rejected here and are even so good enough to stand one`s ground in the MLS. In my opinion that would be not until when we will have promote into 2nd Bundesliga, which will take 6-8 years to reach. Currently, the other way is more probable, rejected players from Salzburg or New York are coming to Leipzig to strength the team for the second round or next summer for the fourth division. I think with Beiersdorfer this will change, its nonsense to let rest the ressources between the clubs.
A friend of mine made a lot of videos from where we were sitting in the last row of main RB fan section. He should be uploading them soon to youtube so I'll post links here. It was a pretty decent game overall. Once again, the complete difference of class in play was evident between RB their opponent. FC Sachsen seemed a little more in control only in the very early minutes of the game, but for the most part RB was dominant and FCS never really looked very threatening at any point. At of right now, RBL appears to be an easy lock to get promoted to the Regionalliga after this season. The only real negative aspect to the season so far is that the team was knocked out of the regional cup competition a few weeks ago, which serves as a feeder for lower-level teams into the main DFB Cup. Winning the local cup would have guaranteed a DFB Cup first-round game against a 1st/2nd Bundesliga opponent in the stadium here in Leipzig in August, but that'll have to wait. I'd guess not yet...or in the near future. It is still 5th-tier in Germany so the first teamers aren't going to be up to MLS/Aust. BL quality. However I'll admit that I don't know very much about current players on the youth teams. If I recall correctly, the current youth setup of RBL is an amalgamation of the youth teams inherited from the original SSV Markranstädt team and those taken over from FC Sachsen (due to FCS's financial insolvency), both of which have been putzing around in the lower divisions of German football for a loooong time. As the organization climbs divisions and the academy starts to become the main draw for young players in the area I suspect there could start to be more young hotshot prospects in the team's system, but that will still take a few years. At this point, it would still be dangerous for a fan to walk around certain parts of the city wearing any RB fan gear, and there have been recent incidents of hooligans associated certain teams (or one certain team in particular) actually attacking the players associated with other teams they don't like. So I could see why RBL might not be the first choice for a local kid choosing an organization. However, loans of fringe/reserve players going the other direction (RBNY -> RBL) for the second half of the season (mid-Feb -> late-May) could potentially be useful for both teams over the next 2-3 years, IMO, particularly in the absence of an MLS reserve league. Even reserve-level MLS players could benefit a team like RBL in the Oberliga or Regionalliga in their spring promotion push. And considering how fluid MLS rosters are through the summer, it wouldn't be a bad thing to a player coming back in June/July who spent the last few months on the field (even if in Germany's 4th/5th div.) rather than rotting on the bench.
Not really. Maybe to you, as i know you have a veyr high standard of things you will accept as truth. Salzburg players and coachs have zero concern for what happens in NY, Brasil or Germany. Their job is strictly to manage their clubs. Outside of arranging some training sessions in the off season there is no overlap. Its not like the reserve/first team in Salzburg is looked at guys to send to us or visa versa. We have no rights to any players from those programs here and all movement into MLS has to go through MLS allocation rules. So we can't just grab one without filing a discovery and getting a deal approaved by the league. We only have so many discoveries we can file. So yeah, it isn't going to happen, there will be no world wide Red Bull academy revolution where the teams (in NY at least) will benefit. But that won't stop them in the office from alluding to that possibiltiy to support their claims they are building it for soccer purpsoes.
My standard of truth is that it's something more than the product of paranoia. I understand that MLS has allocation and discovery rules. That still does not preclude us from eventually signing a player from one of the RB academy programs, if we did it properly. As for the rest, I have no idea what the people in charge of the other RB teams and/or academies are thinking. You've obviously had in-depth discussions with them to gauge their feelings so I will defer to you there. Of course I'm sure they care about their own clubs/programs first and foremost. The fact that RB now has Beiersdorfer overseeing soccer on a global basis makes me think that we may eventually stand to benefit from these other activities. When that might happen I have no idea, but I don't see how it can just be written off as an impossibility.
You hvae a pretty low bar for parinoia. Its not very likely. Surely not liekly enough to be the primary reason why they are built. But go ahead and livein your bubble a bit longer, seems you have settled right in there. You should just defer to me more often and save yourself more embarasment. That is the theory i assume. So far all he has proven is he can appoint his friends to powerful positions and not do any real detailed review of potential canidates. Sounds brilliant.
I never said that the availability of players for RBNY or Salzburg was the primary reason why the academies were built, so I don't know where you are getting that. I'm just challenging the notion you put forward that we would never sign anybody of consequence from one of the other RB soccer entities. I don't see how it's possible to determine that. I know I'm on your enemies list for whatever reason but don't put words in my mouth.
I never said you said it. The suits at Red Bull have said it, to me on more than one occasion. I just said it wasn't likely...your the one who is using the word never, not me. Maybe if you just actually took the time to read the posts you wouldn't be so confused.
what is the evidence that biersdorfer has appointed a friend of his to a powerful position? thus far i haven't seen any.
At the risk of jumping on the sack-bashing bandwagon, I don't see where he has even proven this. Red Bull GM is certainly not what I consider a powerful position. I'm with Onionsack on the Leipzig benefits issue. They won't have anything to loan/trade/send our way until MLS changes it's rules and Leipzig has moved up the league ladders. Even then, would we be willing to loan Angel to Germany? No? Well, I wouldn't expect anyone useful unless they have like 21 starter candidates and only room for 20. I would think the most likely scenario would be us sending some young guns from our academy over to Austria and Germany before we got anything back.
This thread prompted me to have a wikipedia adventure. Looks like there is a team called Red Bull Brasil. They were founded in 2009, and joined the Sao Paulo Serie B (4th division of the state of Sao Paulo league) In 2008 they finished 5th (of 40) In 2009 they finished 1st and were promoted to Serie A3. Serie A3 has 20 teams. Looks like a much longer path than the german team to reach the first division.
Not sure, I must have misplaced my Donovan quote-book. In any case, I'd put about as much weight on that sort of generalized flippant statement as I'd put on Uli Hoeneß saying that Donovan wasn't fit to play for Bayern's reserves (who are currently in Germany's 3rd Division). Having attended quite a few Oberliga games over the past 4 months, the level of play is obviously not MLS-quality, but is still decent enough to be beneficial for the bottom-end player of the typical MLS bench who would be waived or sitting on their ass otherwise. In RBL's case, they will almost certainly be playing in the Regionalliga next season, which is already where you see a number of the reserve teams from 1st/2nd Bundesliga clubs competing. While it's going to be a long while before the Leipzig organization would even theoretically be in any position to send any players to NY/Salzburg, there's already benefit in having some go in the opposite direction (most easily Salzburg->Leipzig). Salzburg's coach has already expressed an interest in something like this, so I think we could get a first indication either in January or over the summer about if there will be cooperation between the clubs as far as transferring players. Obviously the focus will always be specifically between Leipzig & Salzburg due to relative geographic proximity, language/cultural similarities and idiotic MLS player acquisition rules, but I wouldn't count out NY being involved if the front office ever gets their sh!t together and has any consistency in management from year to year.
The FO acknowledge this isn't working as it should/could. There hasn't been proper coordination nor has there been a shared sense of objectives. For example, should Sao Paulo and Leipzig care about promotion at all? These things haven't been worked out and so are a far way from working. MLS doesn't provide the proper incentives for player development but that hasn't stopped Red Bull from strengthening the infrastructure. It is surely the least effective marketing stretegy ever conceived if selling drinks is Mateschitz's primary concern. Why bother with these various player development programs in the New York, Salzburg, Leipzig and Sao Paulo (the latter two ideally as feeders to either Salzburg or New York). Not a single player from Leipzig or Sao Paulo playing at New York or Salzburg is a problem. And it is my understanding that's seen as a problem. Major changes to the MLS CBA might break our way. We'll be far more prepared to benefit from loosening of single entity - especially if there's more incentives to cultivate academies - than any other MLS club/franchise. If and when...
It seems to me that Leipzig is the team with the most to gain. Owning a Bundesliga side would be huge. You can't tell me RB would rather keep them in the lower divisions as a feeder team for an MLS team and Austrian Bundesliga team. Playing in the Bundesliga would be huge for marketing. And it can be done. Hoffenheim, for example, emerged from obscurity on the past few years and has been performing quite admirably. In their second season in the Bundesliga they are already a pretty solid top half team.
You are entirely correct. Red Bull's stated intentions for the Leipzig club are to get into the 1st Bundesliga within 10 years. I have little question that they will be successful in this regard, particularly considering how well the Hoffenheim example you give has worked so far. Compared to the other teams they "own" around the world, this will easily be the most financially successful and most visible (for those who think RB truly doesn't care about the sports side beyond a marketing tool) of all of their football teams. Something to keep in mind is that 2nd/reserve teams in Germany also compete in the same league system, meaning that RB will also have a full (professional) team most likely playing in either the 3. Liga or Regionalliga. This is in addition to the whole plethora of youth teams (U-19, U-17, etc...) who will probably be drawing on much of the best young talent of the area. Ultimately there will be more than enough players in the system so that you can see a sharing of talent between the different teams. But in regards to the Leipzig club, they are just beginning so it's not reasonable (or worthwhile) to expect any flow of talent from Leipzig to any of the other clubs for several years. Right now the organization is barely 6 months old, the first team is competing in the German 5th division, the reserves in the 7th division, and the youth teams are inherited from SSV Markranstädt - essentially consisting of kids drawn from a suburb of 15,000 people, plus whatever came over from FC Sachsen's youth teams due to their insolvency deal. Frankly, RBL has no players to give, and none that the other RB teams would even want at this point. Check back in 5 years, the picture will be vastly different. (and this is completely ignoring the projects in Brazil & Ghana, which I know very little about) While this will surely make me suspect of drinking the Red Bull-vodka-flavored koolaid, I will say that I do believe that the organization in Austria truly wants (and expects) to have as much cooperation between the clubs as possible and that it going to eventually happen. Considering how relatively new it all is, and how even the ownership still trying to find stability in their own footballing bigwigs, it's still going to take some time and patience from the fans for it to actually come to fruition. In the meantime, getting sent the occasional Löbster from Salzburg, being able to send guys like Sassano or Hall to Salzburg for offseason training, or sending fringe players to Leipzig for half-season loans isn't the worst deal in the world. I think these guys are in it for the long run, so give it all a few years to develop.
How does this work, can they be promoted to first division? In Mexico, many reserve teams play in the 2nd division, but they do not get promoted. Theyre simply excluded from the promotion formula. As for the Sao Paulo team.... most teams in Brazil make their money by growing players and trading them. If a 4th division team has a star player, theyre less interested in using the player to get promoted then they are in showcasing the player so they can sell him.
I'm not 100% sure of specific rules, but I'm pretty sure that any organization can't have two teams competing on the same level, which will automatically limit how high the reserve team can climb. There might also be rules prohibiting reserve teams from entering the 2nd Bundesliga (I can't think of a single instance of ever seeing one at that level). However, that would seem unlikely of happening in any case. As of now, the four highest-ranked reserve teams are Bremen II, Bayern II, Stuttgart II and Dortmund II, all of which are competing in the 3. Liga and are taking up 4 of the last 7 places in the standings.
This rule exists, reserve teams can`t promote into the 2nd Bundesliga. Relating to the issue of preparing benchwarmers in Leipzig for the MLS season, that wouldn`t hardly happen with our first team (exepting maybe next season when we`re playing in the fourth division), but there are two opportunities how they could even so play here in Germany: in our second team and in our partner club SSV Markranstaedt! Short explanation: the license of our currently second team will give over to the SSV after it promotes from 7th into the 5th league, but it furthermore will be using as the reserve team for RB Leipzig, at least until the current third team (which is the new second team after that change) will be promoted into an adequately league, but maybe after that, too. Both teams could then be used to give american players practice for the MLS - if they`re playing in the fourth or even in the third division, in the fifth they can`t, because it`s forbidden for non-EU-foreigners to playing in the Oberliga.