Legends Database

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by poetgooner, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ok mate, cool. Tbh I've not even got through looking at a really big proportion of profiles yet lol, but have been picking things out as I do.

    A couple more while I'm at it (trying not to go crazy with suggestions but be minimal, hence I am checking out various profiles without suggesting changes too believe it or not!)....

    Xavi (maybe surprising I pick something since he's a recently active player, and that I suggest increases - I wouldn't say I'm sure nothing should go down but I wouldn't say I'm absolutely sure anything should do either and recognise his very high values are to help him play in the way he does....and I also guess there might be some overlap with what the recent ratings have been in FM although not in an all-time context) - I wonder whether crossing should actually go up a bit due to the technical ability to do it well with accuracy, just as with his ball striking in general, on his right side at least, rather than because it was a normal tactic? And I wonder whether strength should be more in the 'normal' range as I tend to see Iniesta as the slighter of the Xaviesta partnership)?

    Paulo Roberto Falcao - maybe crossing up for him too a bit? And finishing?
     
  2. EnnatzIsTheMan

    Meidericher Spielverein
    Mar 16, 2018
    Would be cool if you could upload the changes and missing players on the google drive file, and post in this thread which players you worked on specifically, so one does not need to check all players again.:thumbsup:
     
  3. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    #253 msioux75, Apr 24, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2018
    Changes proposed for:

    Chumpitaz
    Long Shot --> 17, Jumping Reach --> 18, Balance --> 17, Agility --> 17
    Determination --> 18

    Cubillas
    First touch --> 18, Aggression --> 15
    He was very good Running with the Ball, also Places Shots.

    Joya
    Aggression --> 17, Determination --> 17, Balance --> 17
    When the match was more dificult, Joya increased his level of play, he was good to Cuts Inside. he was taller than 1.77m

    For Cueto, increasing his Free Kick. He, just as Cubillas, were very good Playing One-Twos, also Cueto Curl Balls.
     
  4. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For sure. I'll do that on the weekend :thumbsup:
     
  5. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Changes proposed for Goalkeepers:

    Carrizo
    A goalkeeper that played good the libero role and was especialist to start counter by kicking or throwing the ball.
    Throwing --> 18, Rushing Out --> 18, Strength --> 17, Technique & Vision --> 16

    Fillol
    Reflexes --> 19, Aerial ability --> 17, Jumping reach -->18. A great PK stopper.

    Mazurkiewicz
    Aerial reach --> 17, Agility --> 18, Composure --> 19, Rushing Out --> 15
     
  6. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    THANK YOU!

    I think the GKs are the least-accurate as we simply took it from a downloadable database, and that one is famously bad. We didn't know what else to do because we don't know how to rate the keepers at all.
     
  7. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Without even having checked any GK profile yet, I think some of the best rated attributes for top goalies should probably be as follows:

    Schmeichel - Long throws, rushing out (also preferred move), reflexes, big games

    Yashin - Anticipation, ball handling (especially catching, although I know he did punch the ball sometimes so wouldn't necessarily prefer to catch), positioning, reach

    Banks - Positioning, ball handling, anticipation, consistency

    Shilton - Reflexes, positioning, decisions, big games

    Dasaev - Ball handling, consistency, anticipation, reactions

    Zoff - Decisions, anticipation, agility (as long as young version is made, say 1973 or before!), composure

    When I say agility I am thinking of movements in saving the ball of course not twisting and turning with the ball.
     
  8. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For GKs, that is indeed what agility means.
     
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  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #259 PuckVanHeel, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    I think Jaap Stam his attributes - in his prime version - are a bit underrated in the database. Both the technical attributes and the defensive ones. There is plenty OPTA data around to cite he was technically fairly competent; a strong passer in the opposition half and such, and a strong dueler in the opponents half.

    Stam lost only 5 of his 79 league games that he played for Manchester United, and he was a surefire starter when available. They lost 7 games without him playing in the league (between 1998-2001). For Lazio the pattern is - predictably - even stronger.

    Both DBScalcio and Gazzetta rated him as the best stopper/center-back between 2001 and 2004 in Serie A (i.e. both rated him on top for 2002-03, even though I think Nesta should have this distinction for 2002-03).

    For all his brawn he actually stood out with his calmness and composed play, at that time.
     
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    1998-99, coming in as the world's most expensive defender

    [​IMG]

    1999-00
    [​IMG]

    2000-01
    [​IMG]


    He was one of the best in England and then also in Italy, a country that had a wealth of accomplished defenders (according to Gazzetta and DBScalcio even the single best between 2001 and 2004/2005).
     
  11. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Another one:
    Livingstone
    Reflexes - 17, Anticipation - 17, Strenght - 17
     
  12. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Some more ideas for top GK attributes (their own top ones I mean, not necessarily 19/20):

    Viktor - Agility, reflexes, bravery, anticipation

    Jennings - Aerial reach, positioning, reflexes, handling

    Gilmar - Composure, aerial reach, handling, positioning
     
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  13. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Changes proposed for Side Backs:

    Arce
    Long Shots --> 16, Stamina --> 17, Aggression --> 17

    Eyzaguirre
    Pace --> 17, Decisions --> 18, Aggression --> 17, Long Shots & Technique --> 16
    His profile is duplicated, the first one in the database is better.

    Leandro
    Technique --> 18, Composure --> 17, Tackling & Marking --> 17

    Maicon
    Long Shots --> 16, Strenght --> 18, Work Rate --> 18, Crossing & Pace --> 17



    Gordillo
    Stamina --> 19, Pace --> 17, Dribbling --> 17

    Junior
    Technique --> 17, Vision --> 18, Passing --> 17, Corners --> 17

    Marcelo
    Technique --> 17, Pace --> 17, Stamina --> 18, Long Shots --> 17

    Marinho
    Long Shots --> 17, Vision --> 17, Technique --> 17

    Marzolini
    Tackling --> 17, Aggression --> 17, Pace --> 16, Stamina --> 17, Balance --> 17

    N.Santos
    Dribbling --> 17, Technique --> 18, Anticipation --> 18, Leadership --> 18, Off the Ball --> 18

    Segarra
    Technique --> 17, Marking --> 17, Balance --> 17, Determ.-->18, Work Rate -->18
     
  14. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Ivanovic suggestion

    Corners - 5
    Crossing - 15
    Dribbling - 12
    Finishing - 15
    First touch - 14
    Free-kicks - 5
    Heading - 20
    Long shots - 10
    Long throws - 13
    Marking - 18
    Passing - 16
    Penalty taking -?
    Tackling - 15
    Technique - 14
    Aggression - 16
    Anticipation - 18
    Bravery - 18
    Composure - 18
    Concentration - 16
    Decisions - 15
    Determination - 19
    Flair - 13
    Leadership - 12
    Off the ball - 17
    Positioning - 14
    Teamwork - 17
    Vision - 12
    Work rate - 13
    Acceleration - 16
    Agility - 15
    Balance - 20
    Jumping reach - 18
    Natural fitness - 17
    Pace - 14
    Stamina - 14
    Strength - 20

    https://www.statbunker.com/players/getPlayerStats?player_id=22189
     
  15. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    The Greatest of All Time in 3 attributes, almost 4. Really?
     
  16. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    This is how he was rated in 2014. I'll probably base if off this but improve him by about a tier, as he was at his peak around 2010-2012 maybe 2013.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    He looks like a typical hybrid here.
    I gave him less for positioning, tackling. He was never a world class center. He defended with physical force; strength, balance, acceleration and anticipation. He was really quick to anticipate, despite his "ok" positioning, clearing balls out of the goal and getting on rebounds.
    His crosses were always on target but sometimes got intercepted. 9 for crossing doesn't allow him to rake that many career assists. Also 9 for passing is doesn't fit for a wide player with a career 82.7% accurate passing https://www.whoscored.com/Players/15338/History/Branislav-Ivanovic
    My doubts are about:
    Leadership. He was a dedicated professional but not encouraging others directly. 16 seems too high.
    Composure. He was always calm and composed and never flinched in front of goal, scoring a lot for a non direct setpiece taking fullback.
    Dribbling and flair. He would sometimes dribble the ball out of defense, do backheels, run with the ball into space or cut inside for a left footed cross (slightly worse than his right footed ones). But he was no Cafu/Zanetti, what his dribbling is concerned. It was just technically sound and solid. So maybe that's pure technique, pace/acceleration and decision making?
    Also pace 12 here doesn't seem enough to keep Henry and Ribery from gaining an advantage on him.
     
  18. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    My standard answer to such a remark would be either "yes" or none at all. However since I know you can provide arguments, I will ask for those.
     
  19. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think this is a misunderstanding. A player with 9 passing is actually perfectly capable of even +90% passing accuracy. In the right system where his teammates always provide good passing options, and if he's only playing safe easy passes to maintain possession rather than risky through balls, 9 is perfectly sufficient.

    I'm probably going with the more experienced and peak 2012-ish version of him, not 2009. Also, keep in mind that players with the ball moves slower than players without.
     
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  20. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    I'm not an expert on Ivanovic, I must confess :unsure:

    Just asking, if he's better than Ruggeri/Sergio Ramos at Heading and a stronger/harder defender than Kohler or Jaap Stam, to citing some centrebacks.

    I don't deny Ivanovic can have high values at those and other attributes, but maybe doesn't need the Highest Ones to being closely-to-real modeled.
     
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  21. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    I don't know what values are given to others but I agree that they should be compared.
    I'd say that he's on par with Ramos for heading. Stam could hit harder with his topspeed but Ivanovic had more torque (acceleration). Strength should be similar. His ball shielding on the side is at least as convincing as Djalma and Thuram.

    I forgot to mention workrate, stamina and natural fitness. This should be tweaked by someone who knows the synergies (poet). Ivanovic would come up only a few times per half, maybe on par with Ramos.
     
  22. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
    Other suggestions for Side Backs:

    Pearce
    Going down 2 points - Marking, Concentration, Natural Fitness and Stamina.

    Battiston
    Pace --> 17, Long Shot --> 17, Composure --> 17

    Hilario
    Aggression --> 17, Jumping Reach --> 17

    Zambrotta
    Pace --> 17, Marking --> 17

    Suurbier
    Pace --> 17, Aggression --> 17


    Jusufi
    Technique --> 17, Positioning --> 17


    Armfield
    Pace & Balance --> 17. Going down 2 points - Natural Fitness, Decisions, Marking


    Lizarazu
    Technique --> 17, Determination --> 17


    Kaltz
    Technique --> 17, Acceleration --> 17, Positioning --> 17


    Irwin
    Going down 1 point - Passing, Determination, Positioning


    Janes
    Technique, Anticipation, & Long Shot -> 17, Finishing -> 16. Called "world champion of precision"
    Going down 1 point - Long Throws, Bravery, Determination, Leadership, Nat.Fitness


    Panucci
    Jumping Reach --> 17, Leadership --> 17, Stamina --> 17. Concentration swap w/Composure


    Carey
    Technique & TeamWork --> 18, Composure, Passing & Positioning --> 17


    Marche
    Leadership --> 17, Stamina --> 17, Acceleration --> 17


    Stankovic
    Heading --> 17, Strenght --> 17, Pace --> 17

     
  23. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    These are the players I've reviewed. I didn't have plenty of time so I only did some minor changes to all of them. However, I also made sure that the tier list is respected. (eg. Ivanovic by AbNo would have put him close to Thuram level, so I had to tone him down).

    I'm happy to do one more update tonight, assuming it's nothing major. I'm thinking about adding a few current players for the modernists who are playing the draft. Finally getting to show people that Kane >>> Basten lol.

    Their attributes will be based mostly on their actual ratings in Football Manager (see the likes of Bale for sample.)

    Chumpitaz
    Stam
    Giresse
    Ardiles
    Voronin
    Luis Suarez
    Gordillo
    Marinho
    Marzolini
    Nilton Santos
    Segarra
    Ivanovic
    Cantona
    Florian Albert
    Bergkamp
    Cubillas
    Ceulemans
    Rivera
    Dalglish
    Hoddle
    Hagi
    Rummenigge
    Hidegkuti
    Savicevic
    Totti
    Kopa
    Pedernera
    Zidane
    Deyna
    Rui Costa
    Socrates
    Raul
    Cueto
    Carrizo
    Fillol
    Mazurkiewicz
    Schmeichel
    Banks
    Zoff
    Livingstone
    Ivo Viktor
    Jennings
    Zoff
    Dzajic
    Joya
    Arce
    Eyzaguirre
    Figo
    Boniek
    Raymond Braine
    Law
    Basten
     
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  24. msioux75

    msioux75 Member+

    Jan 8, 2006
    Lima, Peru
  25. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Due to the rain the upload speed has dropped drastically. Check back again tonight. Sorry yall lol.
     

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