Learning Spanish

Work in Puerto Rico for the summer. Best way, definitely. I would suggest another country, but Puerto Rico is the easiest because it's very Americanized.

 

XXI is right, there's absolutely no better way to learn a language than total immersion. however, if that isn't possible for one reason or another, there are some things you can do, but you may have to swallow a little pride. the biggest problem with adult learners is they tend to want to be fluent immediately - i.e. they want to be able to communicate like adults. but actually, starting over again, you have to go back to square one and become a kid again. find a borders or barnes&noble or whatever and get yourself some very basic, my-first-book type of reading with lots of pictures aimed at spanish speaking little kids. try to not be embarassed about it. also do what limited immersion you can - watch tv, listen to music in spanish, whatever. again, something more aimed for kids will make it more easily absorbable. your adult brain should be able to process a lot more information more quickly than when you were young, so if you're able to really put in some effort, you should be able to return to that 7-8 year old level within a year or two...though it will be interesting to see how you go on your accent, sometimes you can't go back in that regard.

 

Spanish prof here...

Total immersion is by far the best way, especially in the country/region whose Spanish you learned as a child. Puerto Rico isn't necessarily the "best" simply b/c it's very Americanized. It would be a good place to go if you spoke Boriquen Spanish. But I'll get back to study abroad pronto.

First: are you in the appropriate level (Sp. 101)? If your university has a Spanish for Heritage Learners or Spanish for Spanish Speakers, it may or may not be the best for you. At first you will struggle, b/c you are unfamiliar w/ the language. But what will differentiate you from the rest of the Sp. 101 gang is that you will intuit grammar to a much higher degree, in fact relying on your intuition exactly like somebody who came to the US at age 10 and hasn't stopped speaking Spanish at home.

The pace of Spanish 101 may be too slow for you, but Spanish for Spanish Speakers may be too fast. The solution? Depending on how anal your Spanish dept. is, perhaps this summer you can hire a tutor (if your Univ. has a grad program in Spanish, it shouldn't be hard to find a qualified tutor w/ collegiate experience) to teach you the corresponding chapters of the book. Yeah, I know it'll be expensive ($30/hr., 2-3/hrs/wk for about 4-6 weeks) but DAMN you'll save time. It's the most tedious material for somebody in your shoes, and you'll go sooo much farther this way then you would w/ your classmates this fall. Trust me, they'll slow you down.

From there, you can hop into the 2nd semester course and get up to Intermediate Spanish by the spring. From there STUDY ABROAD!!!!!!

Just do it. For the summer, for a semester or for a year (the most ideal). Even if you have to take out loans, it is an invaluable experience. My year abroad topped everything in college.

When I came back from Spain, I took French 101 at a local community college, then hired a tutor for the second half of the book. My French dept. f-reaked out b/c I hadn't done 102, but I told them that my parents had native levels of French (they did) and that 101 was far too easy for me and the Intermediate was where I belonged. They signed off and allowed me into the higher level.

If your dept. gives you flack, explain your linguistic situation, that you wanted to get up to speed and that you really fall btw the cracks given your background.

Suggestions for immersion in day to day life: radio, t.v. (reality shows!!, soap operas are kinda cheesy, but great for language building), watch soccer. Some cool shows are Republica Deportiva at 1pm eastern on Univision every Sunday and Contacto Deportivo at 11pm most nights on Telefutura. Go to salsa clubs, rock-en-espanol clubs, regaeton/hip-hop clubs, movies, etc. Get a hold of a Latin-American Cinema syllabus and rent those movies. As opposed to Chemistry or Anthropology, you can "study" for Spanish by doing your daily activities in Spanish.

pm me if you have any questions!

buena suerte,
carlos of the ucla kind

 

Find yourself a Senorita and indulge in the Latin cuisine! Vamos!

 

Boriquen Spanish? What the fuck? You criticize the Spanish spoken in Puerto Rico and yet you advise him to listen to reggaeton? LOL. There's a difference between Nuyorican Spanish and Puerto Rican Spanish. A lot of people do not realize that.

Puerto Rico is by far the best country for total immersion for someone living in the United States. Why? Several reasons:

It's much safer than most of Latin America (which means that you won't be kidnapped; big, big plus if you ask me).
US currency is used.
English is widely spoken.
You don't need a visa or other nonsense.
It's relatively close (A little more than two hours from Miami by plane).
Flights fly directly to Puerto Rico; flights fly everyday; several airlines go there.
Oh, and Puerto Rican nightlife is among the best in the world.

 

Whoa!! At no point did I criticize Puerto Rican Spanish.

By listening to regaeton, it provides an excellent example of the current culture in Latin America and gives a common ground to ... maybe, start a conversation w/ somebody, ask a lady to dance, watch t.v. shows and maybe follow what's going on...

Yeah, when was the last time a study abroad student got kidnapped? I wouldn't make any blanket statements w/o knowing the study abroad industry. Now, safety is an issue, hence hotspot language centers tend to be safer than the rest of the country.

Actually, pedogogically, this is a DISadvantage. Forcing your brain to divide by 7.5 or to multiply by 6.2 or 60% is better for linguistic advancement.

What happened to TOTAL immersion? Why are you in essence advocating for Partial Immersion?

I stand by my recommendation to go to places where English does not proliferate.

Such "nonsense" actually provide an amazing glimpse of how societies operate. Having to deal w/ beaurocracy and the appropriate register required (Ud., a very formal, nearly academic Spanish), enriches the linguistic experience in the target language.

Is PR the only nation that receives direct flights from parts of the US?

Nightlife is very important, but there are many cities that can easily compete and outdo SJuan, such as Madrid, Buenos Aires and Mexico City being 3 quick examples. In fact, anywhere in Spain can compete w/ PR.

Please, leave the advice to the experts, m'kay.

 

Rgrayson, one program to keep in mind if you ever consider the Puerto Rico approach is the National Student Exchange. This program brings together schools in 48 US states, a number of Canadian provinces, DC, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands in a "tuition neutral" group of over 170 schools. I'll use my school as an example: a University of Idaho student pays in-state, UI tuition and goes to any other member school for no additional tuition. In theory, somewhere amongst the 170+ schools a student will pay tuition but attend UI for no additional fee. This can be done for up to two semesters.

This is a good way to study in Puerto Rico without incurring the sometimes hefty program costs that often accompany study abroad programs.

You can learn more here and view a list of all participating schools. No one like UCLA, so no classes from Carlos, but some good institutions nonetheless (including seven universities in Puerto Rico).

 

If you are on financial aid at a public school, and you go through your school's program, it's typically LESS expensive to study abroad, w/ the exception of Spain. But I know of a lot of students who actually got a better financial aid package b/c they went abroad, like me. Universities gain by having their students study abroad, as it frees up space for somebody else at home, they still get some $$ from fees and students come back enriched. I know that at UCLA and UC Berkeley, admin. freaks out if numbers drop, mainly b/c they tend to drop in economic downturns, which means less space for incoming students, which is already affected by budget cuts.

Private schools: if you go through your school, again it tends to be less expensive to study abroad. If you go through another program, that's when it gets more expensive.

 

Fair enough.

Wait. Since when is this thread about study abroad programs? I was the first person to suggest living in another country. And by that I mean taking as much time off as possible and living in Puerto Rico.

Secondly, the fact of the matter is that Puerto Rico is much, much safer than any other country in Latin America (maybe not Cuba), regardless of the "language centers" or not. Now, being "tourist" and "American" are not two labels you want everyone to know when visiting Latin American countries.

Good job.

I am not, "in essence", advocating anything other than complete and total immersion in Spanish. But what happens when you cannot communicate, in Spanish, to people around you what you want or need to say? You use other methods of communication, in this instance English.

So you are advocating grunting and sign language then?

Besides, in Puerto Rico people speak Spanish. English isn't spoken by the natives. Many just happen to know English.

Ud.? What the fuck are you talking about? Oh, so now, all of a sudden, formal Spanish isn't used in everyday life.

Check how many direct flights there are to countries in South America and compare it to the number of direct flights to Puerto Rico. Oh, and US flights don't fly to Cuba directly either. I am just stressing how easy it is for an American to become totally immersed in the Spanish language by living in Puerto Rico

 

And you base this on what empirical evidence?

You make it sound as if Lat Am is extraordinarily dangerous. It's not. Don't buy the hype. Each place should be judged on its own merits and the general safety of the area.

Btw, Cuba by far is the safest place for a tourist. That's the beauty of military dicatorships that prop up their employment figures by making men cops.

Voila partial immersion.

Total immersion = no usage of mother tongue.

The register one uses when addressing an elderly person, for instance, is quite different from one in which you encounter beaurocracy. The latter is much, much more formal. W/in the 2 registers (tu/Ud), there are several degrees of formality and informality.

Proximity to the US shouldn't be a primary factor in which place to study. In fact, it's actually a negative in many regards b/c students are too tempted to fly back home for a short period and hence stunt their linguistic growth.

Nope. Literature, not grammar. Most of my students are Latinos. And a PhD in Spanish qualifies me as an expert. That and the fact that I've led study abroad programs (Salamanca, Spain, twice) and have participated in 4 separate programs in 3 countries (Spain, France, Cuba), served on numerous committees dealing w/ study abroad programs, have written letters of recommendation for at least 20 programs in roughly 10+ countries, makes me know what I'm talking about.

 

I take it you have lived in Puerto Rico?

Latin America is very dangerous. How can you not admit that? Puerto Rico itself is much more dangerous than any state in the US; the rest of Latin America is much, much worse. Medellin has been called the murder capital of the world. Where do tourists go in Colombia? Medellin. Why? Because it's one of the most beautiful places in the world. You're ignoring so many things.

I already pointed this out, thank you.

Oh, and no one on your fabolous study abroad programs speak English do they?

Trust me, Rgrayson. You'll get a lot more out of taking a trip to Puerto Rico than going on a study abroad trip to Madrithhh.

Sorry to tell you, but Ud. is the same as Ud. Tu is the same as tu. What is different is the words you use with ud. You would do the same in English (how would you talk to a police officer who is going to give you a ticket?), so nothing new here, Rgrayson you can move along.

This is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard. An airplane trip is an airplane trip. 14 hours, 10 hours, 4 hours, 2 hours. It's all the same. If a person wants to go home, he or she will go home. If a student in your study abroad program is uncomfortable enough to forfeit all he or she paid for the program he or she will not think twice. The flight time is not a deciding factor. Now, if your swimming to Spain and back, maybe then your students will think twice. But that's not the case is it.

That's funny. I don't recall too many Hispanic students who grew up talking Spanish taking Spanish at my university. And I know of no student from Latin America to take Spanish at my university. You want to know why? The best places to study Spanish are naturally universities in Spanish speaking countries. So why would a person who is fluent in Spanish study Spanish at a gringo college? That's like studying English at UPR. So now you're a liar too. Or maybe you're just exaggerating. If you're Hispanic then you're allowed to exaggerate. If you're from the Caribbean you're allowed to exaggerate as much as you want.

Study abroad program to Salamanca. LOL. My Spanish teacher in high school tried to make me go to trip to Salamanca. LMAO. What did the kids learn? Absolutely nothing. Study abroad programs shelter students too much. You want immersion? You get on a plane and live in another country by yourself. And it's easiest to do that in Puerto Rico.

Oh, and I love the "roughly 10+ countries." That's an approximation if I have ever seen one.

 

I hesitate to step in the middle of this lively and respectful academic debate, but I just gotta' call a few things here.

I split time between two universities, one in madrid (but an american school), the other in new york. at both, when studying higher level literature, there most definitely were native speakers in the class. in new york they even outnumbered the gringos (in fact once or twice, I was the only one of those) and hispanic-but-non-native-spanish-speakers. they aren't necessarily majoring in spanish, just taking a course or two. granted that your experiences were different, that's no reason to be calling the man a liar.

let's draw a distinction here between high school and university. most high school programs I've heard of go for maybe about two weeks or so, does that sound right? and, because all the kids that go are gonna' be minors, the school actually has a resposibility to protect the kids. whereas at university level, study abroad means at very least one full semester, and preferably a year. and the school doesn't have the resposibility for you, you're more or less on your own and face many of the same problems as you do living abroad independently. either way is perfectly valid.

 

Latin America is dangerous? Oh man, I'd better go back in time and cancel my trips then so that when I went I didn't potentially get mugged!
Get real. No one's kidnapping a student on a study abroad program unless their name happens to be Michael Jordan Jr.

 

Wow. Simply wow.

No. I'm not. You are stereotyping. That's what I refuse to ignore. There are places in Lat. Am. that are unsafe. But to say that Lat. Am. is very dangerous is simply moronic. Insulting. Ignorant. Illogical. Stupid. Ridiculous.

More places than not are perfectly fine. Some countries are incredibly safe, like Argentina and Chile. Hell, even parts of Colombia are fine. Try to avoid blanket statements, m'kay.

Oh, and no one on your fabolous study abroad programs speak English do they?
Depends on the program. It's actually one of the negative elements of study abroad, but it's rather simple to remedy. And at no point did I say that study abroad programs are ideal.

What's not ideal, btw, is to show up in a country w/ insufficient linguistic preparation and w/o a plan of action. Simply showing up and looking for a job teaching English or waiting tables is not the best way of learning a language. You've got to have at least one semester of grammar under your belt if you want to master the language, and it's best to have 2 full years.

Sorry to tell you, but Ud. is the same as Ud. Tu is the same as tu. What is different is the words you use with ud. You would do the same in English (how would you talk to a police officer who is going to give you a ticket?), so nothing new here, Rgrayson you can move along.
You know, I can forgive the fact that you've never taken 2nd language acquisition course, porque muestras que no tienes ni la mas minima idea del tema. Not only do you not know pedagogy, but you don't know squat about linguistics. Learn a little b4 you "attack" me w/ your ignorance. Learn what "register" means, imbecil. Then, come back and report just how ignorant your little "lesson" above is. I'll hold my breath.

This is the most ridiculous logic I have ever heard. An airplane trip is an airplane trip. 14 hours, 10 hours, 4 hours, 2 hours. It's all the same. If a person wants to go home, he or she will go home. If a student in your study abroad program is uncomfortable enough to forfeit all he or she paid for the program he or she will not think twice. The flight time is not a deciding factor.


Sure. I happen to know, b/c I've worked in the college language industry since 1994, that you, my friend, are high. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. I do, b/c my universities have actually studied this and I've had to relay the info to my students. Students who study in Europe but are from the east coast, tend to go back on average 2x during a one year stay. West coast: 1.25. Why the gap? Distance. Price. Time. California students who study in Mexico: 2x. Why? Distance. Price. Time.

Seriously, back off. You have no idea what you're talking about.

That's funny. I don't recall too many Hispanic students who grew up talking Spanish taking Spanish at my university. And I know of no student from Latin America to take Spanish at my university.
Now, I know tht you're the expert, so I'm just going to throw out UCLA and UC Berkeley's stats that show that 60% and 55% respectively are Hispanic. What the hell do they know. You're the authority. And I'll ignore my class lists over the years in which I've taught classes well over 70% Latino, including 25% from Lat. Am. Cuz what do I know. YOU'RE the expert.

You want to know why?The best places to study Spanish are naturally universities in Spanish speaking countries. So why would a person who is fluent in Spanish study Spanish at a gringo college?
Do you have any idea why ppl take Spanish? No. Thought not. What are some professions that they go into? Dude, you're seriously, seriously, clueless. Can ppl take their major courses while taking a Spanish class w/o being forced to leave the country? Check out the lists of courses at major universities: you'll find that Spanish lit courses are packed.

Study abroad program to Salamanca. LOL. My Spanish teacher in high school tried to make me go to trip to Salamanca. LMAO. What did the kids learn? Absolutely nothing.
So you're equating high school[/b] Spanish to college level. Talk about ignorant. Nada q/ ver, hijo mio. Nada q/ ver.

Students report Salamanca as being one of the best places to study college-level Spanish.

Study abroad programs shelter students too much.
You say you went to college... Yet you repeatedly make blanket statements based on no empirical evidence. Sure, many programs shelter their students. But no all, especially the year-long ones. See, that's why they make students go through all the beaurocratic stuff on their own: to immerse them and force them to survive on their own.

I can speak for the University of California 9 undergrad campuses: the entire mission of the programs is to FORCE students to be self-sufficient abroad. Very, very little coddling, hijo mio.

You want immersion? You get on a plane and live in another country by yourself. And it's easiest to do that in Puerto Rico.
So everybody's got to go to PR?!

PR is an option, and it should be. But there's a reason why it's not one of the most popular destinations. Much like Barcelona, PR has linguistic barriers to it: too many ppl speak English and talk to 'gringos' in English. That's not to say that it's not a good fit for certain students, mainly students interested in history or poli sci, or students wanting to learn about the roots of an important sector of East Coast society.

But it's not the best option for a large number of students. If it were, it would rival Spain, Mexico and Costa Rica for the number of students going there. Sorry. But it doesn't. For a reason.

Oh, and I love the "roughly 10+ countries." That's an approximation if I have ever seen one.

 

I think Rgrayson just decided to study French instead!

 

I am in the process of learning. I have (from the library) a Berlitz "Think and Talk Spanish" which is basically a 150 page book with a few CD roms. Along with that, I am watching at least a half an hour of spanish tv a night, looking over 501 Spanish verbs to try to hammer some of the conjugation in my head, and also reading Spanish poetry and fiction. The reading is often slow going and I use a dictionary, but I was told that adding this to the CD classes and the tv would help. I am actually improving.

The mexican attorney who I work with insist I should take a mistress in Mexico if i want to really learn.

The issue is speed and that is why one needs to immerse. I will go to a business meeting in mexico or guatemala and I will hand in there for a few minutes but then my mind falls behind and then I get lost.

Just as the US could be dangerous to a non-english speaker, so could Mexico or Guatemala be dangerous to a non-Spanish speaker. Once you know these countries it is easy to be safe.

If one is absolutly paranoid of Latin America, can I recommend Costa Rica as a good starting spot? Absolutely safe, clean and beautiful.

 

I am more interested in the non-academic, one or two week summer immersion course that you can take in mexico (guanajuato) for the person who has some spanish background but lacks the speed I just discussed. Especially if there are family "packages". Anyone have any experience with that?

 

Latin America is dangerous. I've lived here for years and have been fortunate to not have been mugged, robbed or car jacked.

In the last 6 months co-workers of mine have been stabbed (1 person), car jacked (2), been on a bus that was hijacked (3). All these people were gringos and all these things happend in the early afternoon.

Its true that the average foriegn tourist is not a target for kidnapping but they are targets for a variety of violent or non-violent crimes.

As soon as you start thinking that you're safe and stop taking precautions is right about the time you find yourself being the victimized.

 

Going to add my .02. The exchange program and mmersion is obviously great, but for those that can't and don't have time, there are plenty of alternatives that might not give you the formal education of learning spanish, but will give you the practical experience of using it. The original poster did not say his original location, but I will give you examples of where I live and where I'm sure there will be similar opportunities anywhere.

1. Join a local cultural group that focuses on Spain/Latin America. Here in the Bay Area you would be able to join Casa Hispana, La Pena Cultural Center, or Mission Cultural center amongst many others. You would get to make a lot of new friends, immerse yourself in cultural events, and obviously practice your spanish with people of all levels.

2. Join a Spanish Book Club. I belong to one and we meet once a month reading Spanish language books in Spanish. Though I am native Spanish speaker, many others are not with varying degrees of ability. The people are all friendly and again, you get to meet new friends, while learning new and contemporary literature.

3. Play soocer pick up games !!! (cascaritas or picados as they are called) That's how Landon learned ... You get to talk about your favorite sport, get some exercise and learn about the game and history of soccer from a (mostly) Latin perspective. One that I think is way undervalued here in the States.

4. See if you can post an add to exchange english for Spanish. You will be surprised at how much you may learn as you will be both be learning a new language and learning from each others mistakes.

5. Immerse yourself as much as possible. As others have stated, listening to the radio (let me know if you need pointers in music ) Read papers in spanish. Just go to spanish internet sites. Even if its just for soccer, you'll be able to practice your reading skills.

If you make an effort to reach out to the Spanish speaking community whether its a cultural center or dance club (in most cases) you'll find that most people will be willing to help. If you're a student at University, join one of the Latin student groups (except MEChA)

There should be plenty of opportunities for anybody to learn without having to necessarily go through the process of a formal education (not that I'm discouraging it) It's just that people are busy and might not always have time to do so ...

 

Well, ********. You didn't say we were talking about Gringos.

I thought only dumpy fat guys who looked like extras on "The Mission" were the only one's who posted on these boards.

 

I've heard that Antigua, Guatemala, is very safe...

But since when is Guatemala ALL of Latin America?

Parts of Guatemala are notoriously unsafe; others are not. Just like most countries on the planet. To say that b/c Guatemala City and Mexico City are dangerous, ergo ALL of Lat. Am. is dangerous, is frankly stupid, insulting and extremely poor logic.

Just like in Oakland. Paris. NYC. Poughkeepsie. Des Moines. Or any where else on the planet.

Granted, in some places, you can let your guard down more often than others. But I personally am smart enough to follow my instinct and never let my guard down in Rio de Janeiro, Salvador de Bahia, Mex. City, NYC, Oakland, San Francisco, Paris, Marseille, or any other time that I travel. I've even been to the infamous favelas in Rio and Salvador, and nothing's happened to me.

And like I've said b4, there are far more places down south that are perfectly safe if not safer than most of the US. And there are countries that are even safer than than the US. Period.

The lesson here is that there ARE unsafe places in which a traveler should never, ever let their guard down, like Mexico City, Guatemala City, Baranquilla, etc. But I don't recommend tourists EVER let their guard down b/c they are easy targets, whether in Italy, Greece, USA, Ecuador, Chile or Timbuktu.

 

Where exactly do you live?

As is anyone who appears to have disposable cash on them.

Which is true of any place you go where you're a tourist. I wouldn't let my guard down in the South Bronx either. Of course, I also wouldn't go there.