Leadership

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by NietzscheIsDead, Jun 8, 2019.

  1. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    What position does he play, coach?
     
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  2. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    One of the things that gets me about people getting all high and mighty about how this or that guy just has to be captain because he is so mature and "responsible". Yet, when you later ask them to take responsibility they say that's ridiculous because the guy was just one more guy on the team.

    If your gonna be the man then be a man.
     
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  3. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    It's funny this is still a thread in 2019.

    I'm not getting into the MB stuff, cuz I'm pretty sure office space is MB.

    As far as captain, I'll say it again, as I have many time. No more permanent captain. Select the team, choose captain based on who leads each camp. Maybe it's the same player. Maybe it's a rotation between a few. Maybe it's a new guy every time.

    You play 10 games a year, you don't need to shoehorn a player into a captaincy. We just did that with MB, and it guaranteed he had to be on the field when he shouldn't have been. Tho of course the fact he's still on the field suggests there are other issues at play (and it's not his quality on the pitch).
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The last cycle was effectively built around Bradley and it was an unmitigated disaster. He is also noticeably slowing down for both club and country - he was once an obvious MLS Best XI candidate and now no one thinks of him that way. Equally important, he was a terrible captain and leader (which is unfortunate as I think he has many admirable personal traits) but his leadership was awful given how fractured the locker-room obviously was.

    Let’s start with the viewpoint that the last cycle was a disaster and that it would take some combination of the following to bring a player into this cycle:

    - strong play last cycle
    - elite athleticism
    - Hungry attitude
    - good teammate or at least a “glue” guy
    - ability to play at high speed/intensity
    - not on downside of career

    Bradley checks none of the boxes. Conversely, Pulisic pretty much carried the team last cycle while checking all of the boxes - I agree that his Hex performance was amongst the best in USMNT history.
     
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  5. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one of those things that it would have been nice having a perm coach a year ago. When I coach, during the preseason I watch and note who works the hardest (not based on who is most talented, but who is giving the most), who is lifting their teammates and explaining things done wrong and make a list of those players. And from there I rotate the band between those guys.

    National team is a bit different, because you aren't together all the time so I think it should actually rotate based on the camp you are in.
     
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  6. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Bradley has participated in three World Cup cycles and has started in eight straight World Cup matches.

    Of course you think this last one was way, way more indicative of his value than anything else.

    Clint Dempsey was also on that roster and was also one of the players it was "built around" but you probably like Clint Dempsey so his legacy isn't tarnished even a slight bit by his participation.
     
  7. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    Except for the last 4 national team coaches who have all thought that he was.

    But, of course, BS knows better than everyone. The posters here are 100% and have never been wrong about a single thing. Their judgement is impeccable.
     
  8. OfficeSpace

    OfficeSpace Red Card

    United States
    Jun 8, 2019
    The locker-room was "fractured" as early as 2013 when SI wrote the Klinsmann piece right before the Hex started.

    Bradley wasn't even the captain at that point was he? I believe Dempsey was.

    That team qualified with 2 games in hand.

    This is all revisionism with the goal of making your preconceived notions to come right.
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Miazga may be a jerk but I think he has what it takes to be a leader of the defense.

    On the other hand, I'm not sure his partnership with Brooks is the best possible. It may be needed to add a third CB when facing dribbling types.
     
  10. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    Or a DM that's strong in the tackle and quick to read and react... o_O
     
  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Huh? Under Dempsey’s leadership, we not only won the Hex but beat significant odds to emerge out of a very difficult group.

    Under Bradley, we finished in 5th place in the Hex.

    Your point about historic coaches is odd: what does the decision that Klinsmann made in 2014 when Bradley was one of MLS’ best players have to do with today?

    Is Bradley a MLS Best XI candidate today?
     
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  12. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I don't think it is revisionism to say that yes Bradley was involved in some good times and successe, but yes the most recent cycle is the most relevant, especially when we're talking about building a team for 3 years in the future. Why on Earth would anyone go back 5 years or so into the past to rate Bradley on what he did leading to Brazil and think that was more relative to the here and now than what happened in the latest cycle and what is happening right now in MLS? SO yes, absolutely Bradley gets judged on the player he is now, not the player he was. Getting old sucks, but as often referenced, time remains undefeated.
     
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  13. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I would be more than comfortable having either Trapp or Bradley on the roster as a person who could help us close out a game that we’re up a couple goals with 20 min or less.

    I personally think Trapp is better but I’d probably bring Bradley so he can get the cap record (how many games does he need?).

    The biggest issue is that we’re exclusively having one of the two of them play one of the most Important positions on the field! To make matters worse, we have a really good, young player who plays there at a much higher level. I mean, c’mon. WTF is up with that?!?!
     
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  14. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    McKennie can play there too and likely better than WT and MB.
     
  15. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Likely? Definitely - given his ability to fill in almost any field position at a reasonable level....
     
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  16. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    Wherever he's asked to. Confidently.
     
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  17. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Finding a good leader/captain, etc. is very secondary to fining the right tactics for the right players on well run national teams.
     
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  18. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    How do you feel about finding a bad one, primary or secondary?
     
  19. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think if you handle what I think is more important first it's a natural process. I prefer the players to more or less choose it themselves than a coach, btw.
    For example, Guys like Dempsey, Donovan, Howard, Jones, and even Bradley were more or less chosen as de facto leaders by the player whether they had armband or not instead of it being given to them by coach a la Trapp.
     
  20. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was thinking how it can be a little like picking a Veep for USA. The pick never helps a candidate win the presidency but it can certainly hurt as seen several times in history. Palin was picked to be a "gamechanger".

    i.o.w., don't be nonchalant about the choice. Picking a bad captain can be like having termites in your house. When you find out it can be too late. I wont mention any names:whistling:
     
  21. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    When I started the thread I never mentioned the concept of captain and made no reference to it.

    This thread is not about who is captain. That’s a tertiary issue. Its about who actually steps up and makes the plays...like Dempsey against Ghana, Onyewu against Spain, Donovan against Brazil, Donovan against Mexico, etc.

    This current group can’t figure out how to go from being paper tigers to jungle warriors. It takes guys who want it badly to make it happen.

    I can imagine Altidore looking at his phone today and getting 5his text from Dempsey “WTF, bro. Don’t any of those guys want to be out there?”
     
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  22. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well yeah the team is made up young super talented guys and guys who aren't really solid international players, imo. It's rare for guys in their early 20's and mediocre players to be 'jungle warriors'.
     
  23. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Donovan and Beasley were.

    Transcendent players transcend.
     
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  24. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's unfair to compare guys to Dempsey and Donovan. They were one of a kind worldwide.
    I much rather get the lineups and tactics right first.
     
  25. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    Mar 17, 2007
    Colorado (formerly northern Virginia)
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    is it too much to ask for a captain that is of the leadership quality of Bake?

    somebody who will stick their noggin forward with true bravery and grit and will fight.

    somebody with toughness like JJ .... frankly only Weston seems to have that presence right now ..... and he is getting bigger and stronger year over year.
     

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