Law School

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Ombak, Aug 5, 2004.

  1. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa
    law school sucks. it was a miserable three years, other than there were a lot of ho's around. but the work is long, tedious, hard, tedious, monotonous, volumunous, tedious, boring, and everything else. plus the professors are ass-holes who try to humiliate the students. and they often succeed. plus the culture is so cut throat. 100% of your grade on the final. think about that for a moment. it IS NOT LIKE F-ING COLLEGE.
     
  2. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right about CA supposedly being the hardest. I took (and passed) both NY and GA so I can only speak to those. NY was definitely tougher than GA. Also because I took them so close together, I had to take the multi-state twice....which was really a pain.
     
  3. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Nearly all my friends took the CA bar, while I took the NY bar. The CA bar is actually easier in terms of material - fewer subjects, and you don't need to know exceptions to the multistate subjects. Also, the CA bars favors smarts rather than knowledge vis a vis New York: the performance tests are set in a closed universe. A full third of the CA exam is based on information you are given in the question, whereas its only 10% in NY.
    Also, the low passage rate in CA is illusive. First, that's the total passage rate, and people who fail it the first time are very, VERY likely to fail it again. For example, the passage rate for NY is 60%, but for first time takers its actually 80%. Its similar in California.
    Also, California has a TON of unaccredited law schools that produce many, many people who will fail. Many. When I took the MPRE in San Francisco, I would ask, "so, where do you go to school" and get answers like McGeorge, or JFK. I'd never heard of these schools, and there are plenty, plenty more of them.
    The bar is NOT hard. If you study and do BarBri, you should pass. It is not something to worry about until you've graduated law school and hopefully found a job.

    As for law school itself, don't listen to patrickm. I found law school to be a great experience, and actually enjoyed it more than undergrad. Depending on where you go, law school can be a lot of fun.
     
  4. K.P.

    K.P. Member

    Mar 18, 2001
    Philly
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As a current 3L, I'll add or retiterate a few points.

    First, although the list of top schools above is generally accurate, there can be a significant advantage to going to a local school in a city where you want to practice. For example, you're much better off going to Fordham than you are to some higher ranked school's in other parts of the country if you want to work in a New York firm.

    Secondly, don't ignore the cost. If you can get financial aid, particularly in the form of a scholarship or grant, that is a major factor to consider. Many benefits accrue from going to a better ranked school, but often times people take on tremendous debt to do so without thinking through the consequences.

    Third, I'd take time off after college if you can.
     
  5. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I agree with this generally. However, if someone has the opportunity to go to....say...a top 5 school (possibly even a top 10), I think it's worth it regardless of where you want to practice. Some smaller cities are more cliquish about local schools but if you want to practice in NYC, you're not going to have much trouble if you've attended a top 5 school regardless of where it's located.


    Very sound advice. Again, however, my advice would be similar to what I stated above re: location. It also is very important to consider how you want to practice. For instance, if you get a really good scholarship to a top 30 school, zilch from say...Yale....but you really want to go into academics, the contacts/benefits at Yale make it a better choice despite the fact that you'll have to go into debt. On the other hand, if you get a half ride at Duke or UNC and want to practice in a firm in Raleigh or Charlotte or Atlanta, it would probably make more sense to take the $ from Duke rather than go to Yale and take out loans up to your eyeballs.



    Also, good advice.
     
  6. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    I'll echo Yossarian's points above, especially in regard to top 10 vs. lower ranked schools. For instance, if you want to practice in New York, Fordham is much better than UCLA, but not nearly as good as Boalt or Stanford. After top 10, the rankings stop being as important.

    As for taking a year off.......it depends. If you know you want to know to law school, go for it. If its something you fall into as many people do, then it makes sense. It is also somewhat easier to get into law school with experience.
     
  7. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    Of course you may wish to study where the common law system started, in England ;) (and the whole notion of trusts, bless those crusaders!). There are plenty of places desperate for foreign students (and the funding). If your over 21 you could even get into Oxford or Cambridge as they're always crying out for mature students.

    You even get to wear one of those funky wigs which Nicephoras dreams of wearing.
     
  8. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa
    i met a guy from toronto in manchester who was attending the univ. of manchester law school. he proudly told me that the english hate americans but since he was a canadian, he was ok. the canadians love to separate themselves from america, as if anyone really gives a sh-it anyway. that was even more odd coming from a guy from tornonto, since toronto is well known throughout canada to be the #1 wanna be american city.
     
  9. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    There's so many Americans over here now that I don't think that's an issue anymore. I remember several (quiet) yanks in my year at law school, and that was before the mass exodus post 9/11.
     
  10. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa

    is there an historical basis for the what he said? "hate" being in context, i imagine.
     
  11. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    To be honest, I find some Americans, usually the fly by night tourists to be irritating, but then I find Brits abroad embarassing as well so that doesn't really mean very much.

    It's probably envy if nothing else, for the same reason we used to be disliked internationally when we had our bad old empire.
     
  12. chrisinho

    chrisinho Member

    Apr 24, 2002
    Back in HelLA
    several reasons:

    1) They think that everything in the UK should be changed around to make it more like the US

    2) American voices are not just loud, they're shrill and have an effect akin to one running their fingernails down a chalk board especially on a quiet train when everyone just wants to read the Metro and get on with it

    3) They're overly friendly, ready to tell complete strangers their life stories at the drop of a hat but couldn't really give a toss about you when it counts

    4) Their sense of fashion assaults the senses

    5) They put on fake English accents that are invariably posh and just plain horrid

    i could go on...
     
  13. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa

    gee, i feel the same way when i hear ANY foreign language being spoken.
     
  14. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith New Member

    Nov 17, 2003
    London
    No don't bite... don't bite...

    OK! You speak a foreign bloody language! Christ, bloody colonists :rolleyes: .
     
  15. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa

    the moral of the story is... people really don't like foreigners
     
  16. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Speaking of annoying foreigners.... Mr. Blair.

    I'm sure he played Lenny on Laverne and Shirley....


    BUT, looking for help here. Anyone know what percentage of MBE questions I need to aim for in order to pass the Florida BAR??? Just an estimate is okay. I figured about 67% correct on the Cali BAR would be a passing grade.

    Also, what percentage should I gun for on the FL multiple choice?

    And what's the deal with being able to have the two days averaged or graded separately?

    Any help appreciated...
     
  17. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa
    funny thing about law school. for the first time in my life,. i was a minority. there were 2 jews for every non-jew.
     
  18. MyHouse!

    MyHouse! Member

    Mar 12, 2000
    Tallahassee
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The score needed to pass is an average of 136 (geez I would have NEVER passed the damn thing)

    If you score 136 or higher on both, you're in.

    If you get a 135 on the FL and a 137 on the MBE, or vice versa, you'd have an average score of 136 and you would pass.
     
  19. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Isn't that weighted though? I.e. after they add points to it? I think in terms of raw score that probably means 60% correct.
     
  20. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    Oh please. The law school you went to wasn't nearly good enough to have that many Jews.
     
  21. patrickm

    patrickm New Member

    May 3, 2003
    usa
     
  22. MLSNHTOWN

    MLSNHTOWN Member+

    Oct 27, 1999
    Houston, TX
     
  23. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard
    My firm might disagree with you.

    How would you know? They don't attend TTTs.
     
  24. Dammit!

    Dammit! Member

    Apr 14, 2004
    Mickey Mouse Land
    Nicephoras, That was a classic case of a joke going right over someone's head... who then gets somewhat upset.

    Just let it go... let it go...

    hehe.

    Also, I read the scores are weighted, which is why I was really asking the question to begin with.

    But, I guess the best strategy is to just get all the questions right, so that's what I'll try for.
     
  25. tcmahoney

    tcmahoney New Member

    Feb 14, 1999
    Metronatural
    Bump.

    I haven't received any decisions yet from any of the law schools I've applied to. I'm not optimistic, judging from how I'm proceeding full steam ahead with Plan B. My grades from 20 years ago are crap, my letters of recommendation aren't from the sort of heavyweights that other people have writing letters for them, so that means I'm trying to get by on my personal statement. I like my personal statement, but I don't know if it's going to do the job by itself.

    Furthermore, I'm not sure if I'm 100 percent ready for law school. It's going to be a huge change for me, and I'm having doubts about it and what sort of career I can expect when I'm done with it. I'm considering another field as part of my Plan B, and I'm enthusiastically pushing forward on that right now.

    One admissions counselor I talked to suggested that not only might I want to bump up my LSAT score from 159, but also take a year of classes somewhere else and bring a recent high GPA to the table. At her law school, 161 is the median score for the 1L class, and I would need to be at the median or above to be considered for scholarships. That really got me thinking about how a year of Plan B might pay for itself in scholarship money down the road.

    I just know one thing: I'm sick of sitting here and doing nothing with my life other than delivering pizza. I am absolutely bound and determined to be studying something this fall, even if it's taking paralegal classes at a community college.
     

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