Landon & Timmy - Everton/Man Citeh 1/16/10 [R]

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by Toolhead, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. arsynic

    arsynic Red Card

    Jan 2, 2007
    Santa Barbara
    some people want MLS to act like a Yanks Abroad fanboy instead of acting like the professional sports league they are.
     
  2. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. There is a reason that guys like Kljestan, Holden, Clark, Wynne, Cooper, etc. linger in the league for so long, and its not because they're not good enough to move up.
     
  3. gmonn

    gmonn Member+

    Dec 8, 2005
    Why isn't someone willing to buy them for their market price though? MLS would have to be trying to sell them for above their market.
     
  4. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the idea is that MLS has a reasonable valuation of their ability and wants to be paid accordingly, while most foreign leagues think that ability isn't proven yet and want to pay less.

    In 10 years when another 25 players have made the MLS to Europe jump and many have succeeded then the Holden's, Donovan's, and so forth will start getting bigger bids.
     
  5. superdave

    superdave BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But MLS didn't unilaterally pick the number...it was negotiated with Landon. A ridiculous number doesn't have any value for Landon, so it wouldn't be in the contract.
    Sometimes American fans wonder about the European system, with a small number of clubs with all the money trying to win the league, and everyone else trying to snag lesser trophies (League Cup) or lesser competitions (Europa Cup.) What is the appeal that keeps Fulham and Everton and Alexandria Crewe and Walsall drawing fans, what keeps them in business?

    But as a Rovers fan (I won't say "supporter;" my connection isn't that tight) I can tell you...there's something about pulling for a team that has more or less the same cast of characters from one year to the next. As Hughes was building his squad, I became more and more interested in the club. But as Warnock, Santa Cruz, and Bentley (among others) have left, I'm having to re-engineer my passion.

    For a personality like Landon, I'll bet the squad stability at Everton is a big plus.
     
  6. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 11, 2006
    MLS has made some very shrewd moves over the years, but one gets the feeling they are at a cross-roads and that hardball may very well work, but the damage caused could lead to bigger problems down the road.

    Sometimes you take a little off the table to make everyone happy. Even if you're the King, especially when dealing with the Prince.
     
  7. arkjayback

    arkjayback Member

    Mar 29, 2008
    Le Mars, IA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Exactly. Dempsey was sold at like $4 million right? Kljestan was doing outstanding on the international stage at the time and played 3 good seasons in MLS. So with Kljestan accomplishing less internationally, MLS only asking like (what?) $2 million(?). Despite his accomplishments in MLS and huge upswing for the US, Celtic lowballed with like a $1 million offer I think. I think the biggest offer for Cooper a few windows ago was like $4 million.

    MLS values league performance much much higher than foreign bidders.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Of course, in a free market, the only "correct" valuation is the one someone will pay, unless MLS figures that Cooper or whomever puts that many butts in the seats, logos on the shirts - which is possible, but beyond my ken.

    If, indeed, the way MLS gets the price up is to have MLS players do well internationally then the best plan, one would think, is to get as many players going from the MSL as quickly as possible to up the price of those that follow. Then again, I don't run a sports league, so maybe I'm wrong.
     
  9. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I think this honestly has to do with what version of "correct valuation" you subscribe to, MLS's or Europe's (as a whole, not just what one team or one manager would offer). Oddly enough, I'll actually agree with you to a point. MLS demands about the equivalent of what European pay for a roughly equivalent player from somewhere else. However, there have been a disturbing number of MLS-to-Europe busts in recent times (the $2 million that Benfica paid for Adu doesn't seem so paltry anymore, does it? Or Eddie Johnson). There have also been some successes apart from the goalkeepers (ie McBride for certain, and the $4 million they paid for Dempsey should be considered a bargain, if he were not injured he could easily sell for twice that number today)

    With some more success stories, it seems very likely that the price that Europe as a whole would be willing to pay for the pick of MLS's crop would come much more into line with MLS's valuations. Donovan is a very likely success story at this point, given his quality and his start with Everton, and he's one who has been getting enough press internationally to help raise some eyebrows and get people rethinking. In other words, a couple guys like Donovan have to make the move, and make it successfully before Europe begins to rethink its valuation of our better talent.

    MLS does seem to get pretty much what they feel the players are worth when it comes to goalkeepers, but that has everything to do with the fact that the world knows that America has been producing good goalkeepers since the mid 90s. Keller (who pre-dated MLS) went and was a success. Friedel went (after having already played in Turkey and... somewhere else) and was a success, a big success. Howard went and ended up surprisingly starting for Man U for the better part of a season, and even after he was benched ended up being a success at Everton. Hahnemann was a moderate success story. Guzan looks right now like he will be a success story at Villa when Friedel finally makes way. And there haven't been any real disasters as GKs go (I'm not talking about some guy who isn't rated much, gets bought by a Scandinavian or South American club on the cheap and doesn't cut it, I'm talking about a guy who is rated, is paid for accordingly, and proves he wasn't worth it). MLS will have no problem getting a tidy sum for the next GK that garners major European interest, certainly.
     
  10. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll grant Eddie Johnson as being a top tier MLS striker (begrudgingly as I use to watch him in Dallas and the guy was awful...no soccer IQ, no first touch...), but I don't think Adu should be considered in the same type of transfer as a Dempsey, Donovan, Cooper, Bocanegra, Nelson, John, McBride or other such players. Adu was a prospect and was not an elite MLS player.

    When talking about prospects the failure rate from ANYWHERE is very high. Just check the U16 or U20 world cup rosters from tournaments 10 years ago and see how many of those players pan out.

    Right now I don't care about how much value the world puts in MLS prospects, but I do think that elite MLS players are undervalued. Someone in Europe should have bought Donovan for $10 million years ago. Shalrie Joseph should have been gone for $5 million US. Ricardo Clark, Jimmy Conrad, Pablo Mastroeni, Kyle Beckerman, and Brad Davis could all have been successful in European leagues like the Eredivisie or the Coca Cola championship.

    Right now elite MLS players aren't getting the respect from Europe even though MLS has a pretty solid conversion (from MLS to Europe) rate on their stars. In fact, some MLS players seem to have performed better in Europe than they did in MLS (Dempsey, Convey, McBride...).
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS asks for what they are worth to MLS, plus a little bit. Other teams offer what they are worth to the other team, minus a little bit. Sometimes the values are close enough to work out and sometimes they aren't, same as in any other business transaction. The 'market value' of a good MLS player tends to be lower than the value they bring to the league for a variety of reasons, including being an unknown quantity, lack of high-level experience, and the perception of the American tactical awareness deficit. For that reason, not too many deals get struck.
     
  12. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the classic idea, but not quite correct. I think the concept of "Information asymmetry" applies quite well here.
     
  13. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    when Landon was just breaking into the USA team, one of the physio's was saying Landon's short-term sprint speed was amazing, almost Olympic sprinter speed. I don't know that many people in any sport would beat him over 10-25 yards.
     
  14. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    If I remember the story correctly, the Nats were training at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado...they did some testing there. The story is that the US Olympic folks put his short-term speed in the range of Olympic sprinter quality.
     
  15. quinn

    quinn Member

    Feb 20, 2009
    Club:
    --other--
    While there is obviously a principle agent problem here, Landon is a commodity, and the common way to assign value to soccer players is how much teams would pay for them on the transfer market. I get what you are saying, but in the end it is just another way of saying that landon is more valuable to LA (in terms of butts in the seat, sales, soft-core photo shoots...) than everyone else, which friesland mentioned.

    Can we draw the supply curves and stuff? awesome.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    North Ridgeville, OH
    2,2,3,12,5,2,15.

    That's not top tier.

    Eddie to Europe was the result of complacent or non-existent scouting from a club that was lulled into a level of comfort due to several successful transfers of players from MLS.
     
  17. Eliezar

    Eliezar Member+

    Jan 27, 2002
    Houston
    Club:
    12 de Octubre
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you are going to make the argument that he was a 2 year wonder (and those 2 years weren't together!) I'll agree.

    Again, from watching GAM I always thought he was the Danny Califf of US strikers, but 15 goals in an MLS season is definitely elite.
     

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