Landon not included in World Cup qualifying roster(per SI)

I think this bit, especially the bolded, is the core premise we disagree on. And no, I don't think Landon's been holding them back. I just think the team has depended on him so long, that they need to adjust to a different dynamic.

*That* would be the ideal.

It doesn't prove we don't need him at all, but it certainly proves we didn't need him for qualifying. How else could you possibly better prove someone was not needed for a task than, ya know, accomplishing that task without said person?

To what purpose? Surely you would concede that there is little to no marginal value in piling on goals. If we get 9 points, there's almost no chance GD will be a factor for us in qualifying.
And if you are wiling to grant even the slightest marginal value to us learning to play without Landon, and also preserving him for the now-significant Gold Cup, then 9pts. + plus that value = Correct Decision.

Of course that is *very* hypothetical. I do not think we will get 9. And I still see a lot of merit in those arguments. The fact of the matter is, both sides of the argument are well understood. Just with different weighting of the probabilities and values by the different sides.

Until these 2 games I was on the fence. And, as I said, if we fall hard in qualifying I will definitely eat crow and admit the decision was wrong, and I was wrong.

To what purpose? To learn what he brings?

 

I think you can absolutely do this with coaching. Don't see why you need to take away one of your best players to do it.

Getting the team playing their best is also the goal of qualifying. So the bar for inclusion is:

"we didn't need him"

How about the bar for inclusion is:

"We're playing at our best."

Why are we settling for worse than we could attain? For what purpose? They already should be able to play without him.

The purpose is having the team play their best. And yes, I would like to plump the goal difference under the just in case scenario that it matters. Until we qualify, we haven't qualified. We still will not have qualified with 9 points. You qualify, bring in the scrubs.

I don't understand any scenario in which leaving off one of your best 23 is beneficial to the team unless he is a locker room malcontent of epic proportions. Which LD is not.

Fair point on the Gold Cup. But I value qualifying more.

Regardless, I hope if he succeeds at the gold cup that even if we get 9 points y'all will be willing to have him on the team. Additive. Not soccerjesus.

Hear ya.

Personally I think we are going to end up with 6/7 points. I will be happy.

And then we will win the Gold Cup, LD will light it up, JK will finally invite him back into the team, and the team will be hunky dorey heading into September.

I hope.

 

^Thanks for the rep man, appreciate the well rounded debate.

And if we end up with 5 points (which could happen), suspect it'll go nuclear all over BS anyway.

 

I think this is a hugely important point. Whether it was an intentional byproduct of this noncallup or a really crafty gamble by JK that paid off, I don't know. Partly we can never know what JK's motivations were, but let's also remember that we can't be sure how the LD non callup is going to work out. We've got three massively important WCQs coming up. If the team plays like they did against Germany and gets max points (or close), then there will be true confidence that they can do well consistently without LD. But if the team plays like it did against Belgium, they'll hardly be justified in taking away that message. I am not going to predict anything except that the next two weeks are going to be the linchpin of JK's tenure.

 

That would be embarassing.

 

What happens on BS if we get 9 points?

 

YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me included.

 

The team has had about 2 years to learn how to play without LD, considering he hasn't been able to play much for Klinsi in the past 2 years. But I get the point that's trying to be made.

 

Well, the discussion was about skill set and I think you were wrong. I don't think it's bullshit that JK says there are guys ahead of LD - it's his prerogative. What's bullshit to me are the reasons he gave. The guys are ahead of him. Based on his criteria. I just don't believe he's giving us the real criteria.

 

We are agreeing on the end result. I still don't like his quote because I find it stupid no matter what the reason.

 

Speaking for myself, I think 9 points here in the next three games would just about permanently answer most of my concerns about JK as a game coach. If we win all three, he'll have to have done his job and then some.

 

Agreed. And then he and the team (with whomever in it) will have (a bit) more work to do across the next 12 months. But 9 points in June 2013 WCQs would be an amazing and well-earned achievement and certainly a good number of positive steps in the right direction.

 

Yes, their form is approximately equal. Has nothing to do with abandoning or team morale or JK's leadership. All I am saying is that, based on what I have seen, Donovan and Zusi are playing at levels that are pretty close. I am not saying that JK doesn't have the right (or the wrong) to base his decision on other factors, just that IMHO form isn't a basis to distinguish these two.

 

BS will still gripe about JK's subs, formation, use of certain players...in other words, nothing here will change.

 

Everything stays the same except we move on to a year of speculative threads and posts regarding Brazil. Oh boy!

 

Agreed. The same people who love JK will come out and say SEE SEE SEE he is brilliant (and he is ok bumpy ride etc) and the people who hate JK will be cautiously waiting for the next negative moment that will most definitely arrive.

nothing will change.

It is going to be a bumpy ride. (a 2.5 MILLION dollar ride...as if it was their own money lol...)

 

I recommend a "Is the horse not only dead but mummified?" standard...


And yes, we are getting there.

 

Do we yet have an answer as to who is on the expanded (available) roster for call-up by the US during the June WCQs?

It looks incredibly unlikely that LD (or anyone else) is going to hop on a plane to Kingston ahead of June 7.

But, if a rash of injuries occurs on June 7 and/or June 11 (or in training), what are the possibilities and avenues available for JK to alter his game-day rosters for either the June 11 or June 18 qualifiers?

(imo, this thread's got about 2 more "good" weeks of life left, unless someone can produce the roster sheets that the US submitted to Concacaf/FIFA ahead of these June WCQs and LD's name isn't on those sheets.)

 

Put it down

 

People might quibble here and there, but if he gets 9, objectively, he's succeeding and anyone still going guns blazing as opposed to being analytically will be wrong. You can quote me on this in case it happens and I go from picking minor nits to flipping out because Brad Davis came on to kill a game or something.